Praying of the Rosary Is NOT Bible-Based Teaching

The Disciplers ^ | 2011 | Ptr. Vince

[Elsie]

Christ is my Savior and I call on His Name several times daily.

And Mary's name?

[DungeonMaster]

Because the normal and natural connotation of mother denotes ontological oneness, making Mary as a goddess begetting a God after her nature.

While Mary gave birth to and mothered the incarnate Christ, she contributed nothing to His Divine nature, and owes her own existence to Christ. Giving her the formal title Mother of God disrespects how the Holy Spirit describes and gives titles to created beings, which works against exalting them as RCs extremely do with Mary, thinking of her "above that which is written," which the Spirit warns against. (1Co. 4:6)

How did you manage to say that so well?

[CommerceComet]

Paul gives instructions to read the epistle of Laodicea. But, you don't have it. Obviously it was important. God wanted everyone to read it. So it wasn't God that didn't put it in the Bible, that was man's choice.

I'm glad you Mormons fixed that for us.

Would you please tell where the Epistle of Laodicea is located in the Standard Works?

[Elsie]

It is part of the Nicene Creed. “begotten by the Father”. It is an article of faith for us.It has been that way for over 1500 years. Odd that you question it now...

Well; you see the book that Rome compiled mentions some folks called Bereans, and how they searched the Scriptures to see if what they'd been told was true; and that modus operandi (a little Latin for the fans) has kinda rubbed off onto me.

Remember when that angel was talking to Mary, and she asked, "How shall this be...?"

I think, IIRC, that the angel said the Holy Ghost would overshadow thee...

[HossB86]

I do not want to sound like I am mocking anyone, but if you are praying with a true heart won’t God hear you even if it’s directed “down the hall?”

I don't want to sound like I'm mocking anyone either -- that's why I would never want to mock God and pray to someone/something that is NOT God. Called idolatry. Or Mariolatry in this instance. Did not Christ teach his disciples to pray by saying, "pray like this: Father..."?

If I have access to God, through Christ, why would I pray to someone dead, hopefully in Heaven, but who cannot hear my prayers? Just doesn't make sense.

If we are talking Old Testament God, I would think not. But the New Testament God seems a little more forgiving.

I thought there was only one true living God... maybe you think otherwise, but there is only one.

Hoss

[Elsie]

That pix is almost as good as the one's your chosen religion has allowed; showing how Joe 'translated' stuff.

Oh; wait...

I got that wrong.

[Resettozero]

I believe all the Bereans throughout history, not just those known as Bereans, have contributed significently more to the cause of Christ than the RCC and all its appendages.

But that’s just my opinion; The Lord is my judge.

[DungeonMaster]

It is not a wise thing to do. We should be working to embrace the 90% of what we agree on, not drive wedges in between the few things we disagree on.

Is that really the ratio? I was pondering that after debating with a Mormon the other day. I felt like I had a bit more in common with Catholics than Mormons but is it really a lot?

[Elsie]

Next are you going to ask me to name all 7 billion people on the earth that can fill the Holy Ghost?

Nah...

...just how your chosen religion is going to get all the NAMES of those folks (and the ones in their graves) to be proxy baptized for them; so they can have a chance to accept Mormonism.

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(That'll take a LOT of gold to make THEM plates!)

[Elsie]

To be a member of the Body of Christ, one does not have to belong to a Protestant church.

To get to the TOP level of 'heaven'; one MUST follow all the rules that SLC has set forth.

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HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church.

Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the Church.

Telestial - where unbelievers go

 

 

 

HELL: A place of torment from which the worst of sinners are resurrected (if they repent) into the Telestial kingdom; only a limited number remain in hell forever, - the devil and the demons and apostates who consciously reject and work against Mormonism.

 

SALVATION: A word that Mormons qualify in one of three ways: unconditional or general salvation is simply resurrection from the dead, granted to all through Christ's atonement; conditional or individual salvation involves entering the celestial kingdom through works of Mormonism; full salvation means exaltation to become a God as a result of temple ceremonies and other works. The word 'salvation' can have a two-fold meaning: a) forgiveness of sins and b) universal resurrection:

• "There will be a General Salvation for all in the sense in which that term is generally used, but salvation, meaning resurrection, is not exaltation" (Stephen L. Richards, Contributions of Joseph Smith, LDS tract, p.5).
• "All men are saved by grace alone without any act on their part, meaning they are resurrected" (Bruce McConkie, What Mormons Think of Christ", LDS tract, p.28).

The Mormons have several different levels of "salvation".

• General salvation- in Mormon theology, the death of Christ ransoms men from the effects of the fall (Mormon Doctrine, p.62), except for a few sons of perdition who fell with Lucifer. Thus, all mankind will eventually receive general salvation because all men will be resurrected.
• Individual salvation - to obtain individual salvation, the standards set forth by the Mormon church must be met. This comes by grace plus baptism plus works.
• Exaltation - different degrees of exaltation
• Eternal life on the other hand is reserved for the elite few who qualify and are found worthy of this "honor" or "reward" and who will move on to be "exalted." This salvation is in fact the personal "exaltation" or the fast track of the "eternal progression" process in attaining your own self-made status of godhood in order to people your own planet.

[Elsie]

I get the feeling that storm prepper is going to be with me on Level Two for a Very Long Time...

I’ve not seen any admission that he follows all the rules.

[Elsie]

I need BIGGER ones!

[DungeonMaster]

What about their beliefs about the nature of God?

[Elsie]

Don't assume everything in the Bible is there because God willed it.

Did your god NOT 'will' that JS re-translate the KJV?

Didn't JS do it??

Why doesn't headquarters; high above SLC; consider it to be scripture???

[Elsie]

The phrase ‘mother of God’ is not found anywhere in Scripture.

See!

That wasn't so hard; was it!

[rwa265]

Once again I repeat: The title is NOT to be found in the Bible.

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I get that. The words ‘mother of God’ are not found anywhere in the Bible. As I stated in another post:

Very well. The phrase ‘mother of God’ is not found anywhere in Scripture. But does the fact that a specific phrase is not mentioned make it not so? Does that mean that the Son of God is not the “Second Person of the Trinity” because that specific phrase is not found in the Bible?

More importantly, is the concept or the essential truth of Mary as Mother of God found in Scripture? Does Scripture contradict the teaching that Mary is the Mother of God?

There are many verses that support the teaching that Mary is the mother of God. One such verse is:

“And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

This supports the concept that the child that “shall be born” was fully human and fully divine at the time of His birth. And by conceiving in her womb and bringing forth “that holy thing that shall be called the Son of God,” Mary did become the mother of this child in His humanity and in His divinity; that is, the mother of God incarnate.

I have not found anything in Scripture that contradicts this. It would be Scripture contradicting itself.

[Resettozero]

As a teenager and in my twenties, I fancied myself a future science-fiction master, such as Bob Heinlein or E.R. Eddison.

I could not have dreamt of anything wilder than did Joe Smith and those who embellished (corrected) his writings.

[Elsie]

This supports the concept that the child that “shall be born” was fully human and fully divine at the time of His birth.

Almost...

...Jesus was 'fully divine'; BEFORE birth.

HE was 'fully devine' BEFORE the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary.

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The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

[Seraphicaviary]

“Because the normal and natural connotation of mother denotes ontological oneness, making Mary as a goddess begetting a God after her nature.”

But Jesus has both human and Divine natures. Mary gave birth to a being that is ontologically fully human. God the Father provide the nature that is ontologically fully Divine. Jesus is both/and, not either/or. Mary gave birth to a person who has has both natures, but she did not provide any of the Divine nature, so it is not required that she be a goddess in order to still be Mother of God. Remember, this is a singular event in history, so the normal connotations go out the window.

Aquinas probably has the definitive answer on this, but I won’t have time to search the Summa Theologica for a while.

[Colofornian]

Colofornian likes to state the above until you point out that the "All Scripture" means all scripture. Even the scripture the so called "church fathers" decided they didn't like so they threw it out. For example: 1. book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14) 2. book of Jasher (Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18) 3. book of the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11:41) 4. book of Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29:29) 5. book of Gad the seer (1 Chr. 29:29) 6. book of Nathan the prophet (1 Chr. 29:29; 2 Chr. 9:29) 7. prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9:29) 8. visions of Iddo the seer (2 Chr. 9:29; 12:15; 13:22) 9. book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15) 10. book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34) 11. sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33:19) 12. an epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, earlier than our present 1 Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9) 13. possibly an earlier epistle to the Ephesians (Eph. 3:3) 14. an epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col. 4:16) 15. and some prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude (Jude 1:14) 16. the manner of the kingdom, written by Samuel (1 Sam. 10:25) 17. the rest of the acts of Uzziah written by Isaiah (2 Chr. 26:22)

If this was a trial, you would be ruled out of order for failing to establish a foundation:

1. You failed to prove if ANY of these were EVER regarded as divinely authoritative.
2. You failed to prove if ANY church father even had any of these books in their possession to "toss out."

On top of that, Mormons overlook what Joseph Smith elected to "toss out" of the Book of Mormon...Smith gets a free pass on that, yet you seemingly think the worse of the early church fathers ... not even knowing what they had in their possession.

If those "gold plates" were so, and if Smith's dictation of them were accurate, then we know what he gave to Martin Harris included a portion of 1 Nephi that was not only "lost" but DELIBERATELY never "redictated" by Smith. (What? Did that hat he duck his head into become misplaced?)