laimed to have an apparation from an angel teaching them to pray in the spring of 1916. They were asked to pray repeatedly by the angel who appeared to them. This is why the Catholics were convinced that they have to pray repeatedly.Posted on 03/24/2015 8:06:07 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Just last Sunday, a local newspaper paper released an article teaching that the praying of the Holy Rosary is Bible-based. In the first two paragraphs, the writer admittedly says that there is no passage in the Bible teaching nor mentioned about the praying of Rosary.
However, in the following paragraphs, the writer justified the praying of the Rosary basing it on the repetition of historical events of some Bible characters (like Gideon as he mentioned) about Israel’s history.
I don’t know if the writer of this article did some research about the origin of rosary and how it was deeply encouraged for Roman Catholics.
Praying of Rosary was encouraged when Lucia Dos Santos and her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Marto claimed to have an apparation from an angel teaching them to pray in the spring of 1916. They were asked to pray repeatedly by the angel who appeared to them. This is why the Catholics were convinced that they have to pray repeatedly.
The flaw however in the story was that, the angel gave two sets of completely different prayers. The angel appeared to the three children three times.
Then after a year, 1917, it was said that Our Lady of Rosary had an apparitions for 7 times. In her second apparition the Our Lady said:
“I wish you to come here the 13th of next month; that you say the Rosary every day, and that you learn to read. In succeding months I will tell you what else I want.” “I would like to ask you to bring us to Heaven“, said Lucy. “Yes, Giacinta and Francis will be among the few, but you must stay here for a long time. Jesus wants to help Himself of you to make Me known and loved. God wishes you to remain in the world for some time because He wants to use you to establish in the world a devotion to my Immaculate Heart. I promise salvation to those who embrace it, and their souls will be loved by God as flowers placed by myself to adorn His throne.” Lucy asked: “Will I stay here alone”?, “Don’t be discouraged , I will not abandon you ever. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and through it will conduct you to God.”
Now here are the flaws of this apparition. First, the Our Lady is telling the children to teach the people to make her known and be loved. Note that the apparition was initiated not by Jesus, nor an angel, but the very person who wants to be made known. It is like, someone came to you and asked you using the name of your friend to introduce her to other people that you know.
The second flaw, Our Lady promises salvation to those who embrace this command. A completely heretical claim, and totally in contrast to what the Bible is saying. The Bible is very clear in saying that “…whosoever believes in Him (Jesus) will not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16).” Only God can give salvation. This is the Biblical truth that cannot be altered, deducted nor added.
Third flaw, Our Lady claims that her immaculate heart will be our refuge and through it will conduct you to God. This is another contradiction to what the Bible is saying. “Come to me all you labor and are heavily burdened and I will give you rest (Matt.11:28)”, “I am the way the truth and the life, NO ONE comes to the Father except through me (John 14:6)”.
The truth is, there is only one mediator between God and man, it is only Jesus Christ (Hebrews chapters 6,7,8,9, and 10)
This is the statement coming from the third apparition:
“In october I will tell you who I am, that which I want, and I will do a miracle that all can see and believe. Sacrifice yourselves for sinners, and say often this prayer, especially during any sacrifice: “O my Jesus, I offer this for love of Thee, for the conversion of poor sinners, and in reparation for all the sins commited against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.“
The flaw of the third apparition is the claiming of honor which belongs to Jesus Christ, and the idea of co-equality with Jesus. Though she did not claim co-equality, but the fact of showing that people committed sins against her proposes the idea of deity that people needs to be so sorry for not recognizing her. The Bible tells us that there are three persona where we committed sins, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. And now, here comes the Mary, an addition to the Holy Trinity.
“You have seen Hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. To save future souls God wishes to establish in the world the devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If people do what I tell you, many souls will be saved.” Then She said:” If my requests are granted, Russia will be converted and there will be peace. If not, she will scatter her errors throughout the world, provoking wars and persecution of the Church. The good will be martyed, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, and various nations will be destroyed…But in the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, Russia will be converted, and a certain period of peace will be granted to the world“. “Do you want to learn a prayer?” the vision asked, “Yes we do!” the children responded. “When you recite the Rosary, say at the end of each decade: Oh My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Your Mercy.“
Now let’s look at this additional quotations from the third apparition. This is more like “Our Lady” centered command rather than “Jesus” centered command. Russia will be consecreted to Our Lady of Rosary than instead of Jesus. Notice the number of recitation of the Rosary. At the end of each decade (10), there is only one calling for Jesus help.
This is quoted from the last (6th) apparition
“I am the Lady of the Rosary, I desire here a chapel in my honor to be built, that people continue to recite the Rosary every day. Will the war finish. The war is going to end, and the soldiers will soon return to their homes.” Then Lucy asked: “may I ask you for cures and conversions, will you grant them?”. “Some yes, others no. It is necessary that they ask pardon for their sins, that they don’t offend God our Lord, and that he is already too much offended.” “Do you Want anything else from me?” Lucy asked. “I do not want anything more.“
The flaw of the 6th apparition is that the Lady of the Rosary is asking for a chapel in “HER” honor, and not Jesus’ nor the Father’s honor. We have to note that taking glory which supposed to be for God is a serious sin, this is idolatry.
The apparition is completely directing people in a wrong path. It is completely in contradiction with what the Bible is saying. The Bible warn us about these kinds of apparitions in Galatians 1:8 “But even though we (referring to Paul and his companions) or an angel from heaven, which should preach to you any gospel other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed.” This is a strong warning that we should be careful in believing apparitions especially if it gives another teachings that what the Bible already have taught us.
Just some additional observations concerning the apparition of Our Lady of Rosary. Our Lady appeared “6” times. In Hebrew culture (the Israelite culture), 6 is the imperfect number. A number usually associated with evil things. Thus, the number of the Beast in the Book of Revelations tells us that it is 666.
Another observation is the dates of the apparition. The apparition dates are significantly on the 13th of every month of that year. Even until, Roman Catholics believe that 13th is always associated with evil things like Friday the 13t h bad luck and not placing 13th floor on buildings. Not to mention all the horror movies that happens on Friday the 13th.
Now let me ask you, do you really believe that these apparitions comes from God? These apparition and commands are completely in contrast to what the Bible teaches us. They are “Our Lady of Rosary” centered rather than “God” centered. The apparitions promotes glory and honor for “Our Lady of Rosary” rather than the glory of God. And finally, even culture related things are in contradiction to the apparitions. Not to mention its lack of Apostolicity and Biblical support.
No, no, no...not MY premise. Just trying to explain why they would call her the MOG.
Did you read the rest of my post...why I don’t hinky it’s legit? No one can be the creator of the creator.
Stephen King’s latest and best, coming soon, The MOG!
Wow..
That's really officially official..
Snicker! Fergot du punciation did I?
Truly, I’m not all that swift, as others may willingly and speedily testify.
No, I missed your meaning both times. Thanks for the clarification.
Apology.
R2z
As I read the Hebrew, I notice the gender of the verb translated by KJV "and shall call" is feminine as in "and she will call his name" which is identical to the verb in Genesis where it is prophesied by the angel to Hagar that she will bear a son and call his name Ishmael. The point is that Isaiah makes it clear the virgin will call bear a son and call him "God with us." She is the mother of the name(s) she names him.
And you must allow that she named him Imannuel/Emmanuel, else she would not be the young woman virgin in Isaiah and Matthew would be in serious error. Therefore, since Isaiah and Matthew are correct, Mary has to be the mother of Immanuel/Emmanuel which the Holy Spirit translated through Matthew as "God with us." Therefore, according to the scriptures, Mary is the mother of " God with us."
Nope.
Matthew Chapter 1 (KJV)
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
To finish the thought...
We indeed today call Him “God with us”!
Hallelujah and Amen!
Do you affirm or deny that Mary is the woman who fulfilled the prophecy in Isaiah to call (name) her son Immanuel ? If you affirm, then Mary is the mother of "God with us." If you deny, you deny her son.
Pinging others because of similar mentions...especially af_vet_1981, rwa265, NeoCaveman:
OK, my concern isn't actually so much Roman Catholic's specific label here of "Mother of God" -- as much as how it's used to appeal in a repetitious, indirect way that I believe tends to detract from approaching our Father directly thru His Son, and ultimately dilutes Jesus' glory.
So based upon what you say here, VermontLt, let's think this thru -- as you say -- "logically" ... by analogy.
You said:
Jesus is God incarnate.
Mary is Jesus mother.
Ergo, Mary is the Mother of God.
Let's apply this "logic" to the Holy Spirit, first taking into account two Biblical considerations:
1. The Holy Spirit is God incarnate within the flesh-and-blood temple of His people (see John 4:16-17; 1 Cor. 3:16-17; 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 3:16; Eze. 36:26-27; 37:14).
2. Mary did not initiate being chosen by God, nor did she need to do anything (Luke 1:26-37) other than submit to bring our Lord into fleshly fruition (see her specific response in Luke 1:38: 38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.”)
So, my extended analogy is:
a. The Holy Spirit is God incarnate within His Church [caveat: No single ONE of us constitutes that corporate temple]
b. Just as Mary simply relented in order to enflesh Jesus, we, too as His Body simply acquiese to "embody" the Holy Spirit
c. Then are we to "logically" conclude: Ergo, the Church is the Mother of the Holy Spirit!??? (Uh...this is where we tend to let us mere servants and sons get in the way of the Divine One)
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. (John 14)
* 7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. (John 16)
Tell me: According to these two passages, Who is the One honored, venerated, lauded for being receivers of the Holy Spirit? The Church at-large? Or Jesus as Intercessor (John 14:16) and Sender (John 16:7) along with the Father as Giver (John 14:16)?
We as the Church are not to...
...assume any credit or glory for any Divine Presence or Divine Activity within and through our lives...
...As our Lord said: "So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’” (Luke 17:10)
...I would say Mary's reaction in Luke 1:38 embodies this same humble servanthood
Mary is no more responsible or laudable or intercessory-worthy for embodying our Lord than the ensuing generational, worldwide Lord's Church as having embodied the Holy Spirit.
IoW, when we have prayer needs, by all means, enlist many mere fellow pilgrim-intercessors; the danger is when such enlistment borders on usurpation by ignoring the Ultimate Intercessor:
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. (Hebrews 4)
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:2)
1. The Holy Spirit is God incarnate within the flesh-and-blood temple of His people (see John 14:16-17
But again, that ontologically oneness is what "mother of God" normally conveys, and is absent in Scripture. Even when stating that Christ come out of Israel, the Spirit is care-full to make the clarification that the flesh is referred to,
Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 9:5)
You argue with God all you want that that clarification is not necessary, since Christ has a nature that is ontologically fully Divine and ontologically fully human, but He thought it important to add that clarification, while also making it clear that God had a body prepared for the Son to become incarnated in, and which came thru Mary as a pious instrument of God. And God does not say this blessing was because she was most holy, nor does it add the multitudinous titles and appellations Caths ascribe to her.
For the title "Mother of God" is not some mere technical term, but is part of the extreme exaltation of Mary which goes far beyond that which is written. For the Scriptures know nothing of ,
. praying to anyone in Heaven but the Lord, or were instructed to (i.e. "our Mother who art in Heaven") who were able to hear and respond to virtually unlimited prayers addressed to them (a uniquely Divine attribute in Scripture).
A women who never sinned (which claim is contrary to how the Spirit characteristically records even lesser exceptions to the norm among even lesser subjects), and was a perpetual virgin despite being married (contrary to the normal description of marriage, as in leaving and sexually cleaving), and who would be bodily assumed to Heaven, despite lacking testimony even from early tradition), and who is, exalted as (officially or with implicit sanction) as
• an almost almighty demigoddess to whom "Jesus owes His Precious Blood" to,
• whose [Mary] merits we are saved by,
• who "had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sin,"
• and was bodily assumed into Heaven, which is a fact (unsubstantiated in Scripture or even early Tradition) because the Roman church says it is, and "was elevated to a certain affinity with the Heavenly Father,"
• and whose power now "is all but unlimited,"
• for indeed she "seems to have the same power as God,"
• "surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven,"
• so that "the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse."
• and that “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus,"
• for indeed saints have "but one advocate," and that is Mary, who "alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation,"
• Moreover, "there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose,"
• and who has "authority over the angels and the blessed in heaven,"
• including "assigning to saints the thrones made vacant by the apostate angels,"
• whom the good angels "unceasingly call out to," greeting her "countless times each day with 'Hail, Mary,' while prostrating themselves before her, begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests,"
• and who (obviously) cannot "be honored to excess,"
• and who is (obviously) the glory of Catholic people, whose "honor and dignity surpass the whole of creation." Sources and more. But rather than promoting the role of a women as the mother of God, and using that misleading title, Scripture teaches that God had a body prepared for the Son to become incarnated in, the idea of a heavenly mother has a strong
It is scripture and truth. I could not fail to answer the question to affirm that Mary fulfilled all the prophecy and is the mother of Immanuel, which the scripture interpreted making Mary the mother of " God with us."
Take your inquisition elsewhere and away from me, okay?
It is publicly obvious you declined to answer the question, so if you drop it, I will not ask you a second time.
Very well done. Now, I regret deliberately misspelling your username yesterday a little.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.