Posted on 03/10/2015 9:58:57 AM PDT by Gamecock
One of the most common objections to biblical authority is that the God of the Bible is guilty of committing immoral acts. God appears to advocate, endorse, and even commit acts that are normally seen as morally questionable. The classic example is the command to the Israelites to wipe out the Canaanites as they enter into the promised land.
In fact, it is the question of whether God endorses genocide that features heavily in the objections of atheist Richard Dawkins in his book The God Delusion (Mariner Books, 2008). It is also a prominent theme in Peter Enns’ book, The Bible Tells Me So (HarperOne, 2014). See my review of Enns here.
For these reasons, I am thankful for the good work of Dick Belcher, the John D. and Francis M. Gwin Professor of Old Testament here at RTS Charlotte. Dr. Belcher has recently published important commentaries on book such as Genesis, Ecclesiastes, and has a wonderful book on Christ in the Pslams: The Messiah and the Psalms (Christian Focus, 2006).
Dr. Belcher recently did an interview on whether God is a moral monster with AP Magazine, an evangelical, Reformed publication out of Australia. Here are some excerpts:
Critics of the Bible claim that it contains so many obscene and cruel stories that it can hardly be the work of a holy and righteous God. Do they have a point?
Obviously, this is a pressing issue today. In the past people who have had moral problems with the Bible have said, “Well, the Bible contains some stories and practices that are offensive to many people and this undermines its authority”. But today some of the more passionate atheists like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens have gone a step further and said, “the Bible’s views on morality are dangerous”. This represents a change in the way that people are viewing the Bible. They are not simply saying that it is wrong; they are claiming that it is evil. Moreover, they go a step further and suggest that the teaching of the Bible should not even be tolerated; instead, it should be rejected as “hateful”. In response, I would point out that when the Bible describes an event it does not mean that it necessarily condones it. The Bible paints an honest picture about the fallen world and it certainly includes some confronting stories. However, the inclusion of some of these stories does not mean that God approves the actions of their characters. On the contrary, they are often condemned. What we need to understand is that God is able to use these stories in ways that further His purposes by teaching us things we need to know about Him, ourselves and His grace towards sinners.
When God brings judgment on people such as Pharaoh or the Canaanites is He being malicious, or does He have some other purpose in view?
In most of these situations, God’s first response is not judgment. Even in a case like Sodom and Gomorrah, God comes first to Abraham to reveal His plans to him. Abraham pleads with God, and God is willing to save the cities if there are 10 righteous people in them. So we see that God’s first response is not one of judgment. Usually God’s judgment comes after an extended period where people refuse to change, and evil reaches epidemic proportions. God is always slow to execute judgment. In Genesis 15 we discover that God reveals that He will not punish the Amorites for at least four generations, which in those times equated to over four centuries. I don’t think that anyone could argue that God acted capriciously and was not long-suffering and just in executing His judgments. In fact, I think that most of us would be thankful that God is so forbearing and merciful in the way He executes justice. I think we all need to pause and remember that the God of the Bible is holy and we are sinners. We deserve nothing from Him, and that’s the part of the equation we don’t understand today. If we did we would soon realise how merciful and gracious God is when He exercises such restraint towards us.
A lot of people take offence at God’s command to the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites. What do we know about the Canaanites? Did they deserve it?
That’s the way this issue is presented sometimes: the poor, innocent Canaanites, minding their own business, and then God pounces on them in judgment and destroys them through the Israelites. Well, as I said earlier, God’s judgment wasn’t His first response. He waited for over four centuries until their evil had reached the upper limit, so to speak. The Canaanites were a people who were very wicked in their behaviour, even engaging in child-sacrifice. They worshiped gods who were lustful, incestuous, and bloodthirsty and the Canaanites became like the gods they worshipped. The goddess of sex and war, Ashtart, was very violent. She decorated herself with suspended heads and hands attached to a girdle. She exalted in brutality and butchery. Of course, the Canaanites also worshipped Baal, who was the god of fertility. One aspect of Baal worship involved the Canaanites engaging in sexual activity as a form of sympathetic magic to induce him to produce fruitfulness for their crops. So it’s a false picture to say that the Canaanites were innocent people minding their own business. They were extremely debauched and wicked people.
How would you answer somebody like Richard Dawkins who says that when God orders the extermination of the Canaanites He is nothing more than a moral monster?
I would answer by reminding him that the Bible says that God is a God of justice. His judgment is simply a manifestation of His justice and righteousness, and if we had a sense of His holiness, our response would be one of fear and reverence because of the holy God that He is. I would also remind him that this judgment upon the Canaanites serves as a warning of the future eschatological judgment that faces us. And I would also add this: God’s command to exterminate theCanaanites is not something that occurs all throughout Old Testament history. It is for a particular period of Israel’s history. It’s not as if Israel participated all throughout her history in this kind of activity. It was for a particular purpose in a limited period of her history. Further, it was confined to the time when she entered Canaan to take possession of it for herself so as to fulfil God’s purpose for her. Now there were times when Israel engaged in physical warfare – holy war – but many times that was defensive. So this is a strictly limited period during Israel’s existence, and we should not think of Israel participating in this kind of activity all throughout her history. To suggest otherwise is wrong.
To read the whole interview, go here.
Realize that God himself submits to the humility of the testimony of witnesses... why would a “kneel before Zod” God bother?
Can God go against His own word?
The root problem is man trying to decide if HE approves of GOD....as if the God who created the entire Universe is someone we can comprehend and judge!
My time In Afghanistan in 2007 convinced me God probably had good reason and just cause to exterminate the Canaanites. In any case, it is certain that a God who can create a universe is likely to know more about the situation than modern man does!
This just shows the pride of modern man, and sets us up for just judgment by the God they reject.
BEEP!
“No, this is an argument of right by might.”
Ants are not fit to judge man, morally or in any other way.
We simply do not have enough knowledge or an eternal perspective to allow us to judge the Creator. It is incredibly prideful to suggest our perspective provides enough basis to make any judgment against God.
The BEST answer to the “immoral Old Testament God” is, imho, here:
http://www.premier.org.uk/radio/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Conference-Videos/2011/Is-God-a-Moral-Monster-David-Instone-Brewer
Instone-Brewer goes through the O.T. point by point (slavery, rape, killing children, etc.).
Example: why were the Israelites commanded to kill Canaanite CHILDREN? (Because in those cultures, the kids were honor-bound to avenge the deaths of their parents.)
I think Paul is often wrestling with questions, rather than pronouncing on them, and the question about the potter and the clay might just be one of those times.
I don’t believe our God is an arbitrary God, as is the god of the Muslims, who can do one thing and then its opposite and both would be good by definition. I believe our God is consistent.
What purpose could there be, in deliberately making a bad or cracked pot, when you could make a good one?
How could a good father choose to deliberately teach a child to do bad, to not love him, to let him know he was born for rejection and disinheritance? Yes, that child may go astray of his own will or choice, but the merciful father receives him back when he repents.
And if the clay has nothing to lose, why shouldn’t it complain about the potter? How could it get worse?
BFL
*I think Paul is often wrestling with questions, rather than pronouncing on them, and the question about the potter and the clay might just be one of those times.*
Paul is doing no such thing.
Good question.... Better answers..
Any human passing Judgement on the biblical God.. is HUMOROUS..
Who could do it?... I’d like to get a look at this creature..
Looks like the main message of the bible went way over IT’S HEAD.... ZOOOM...
AND the generic God spoken of in the American Constitution is way too subtle for them..
AND probably why? they no doubt HATE the American Constitution..
Israel means “to struggle” with God. Islam means “to submit”.
I’d rather struggle any day.
The arrogance of atheism is to just make it all up.
Actually a good question to ask any nominal biblical god believer..
A question they can play with.. as they no doubt could care less anyway..
You know..... one way or the other..
When God “commanded” the extermination of a certain people by the Israelites, it was basically for the same reason as what Israel faces today - its enemies are DETERMINED to exterminate Israel.
It takes reading a LOT of the Bible at a time and doing research. We see descendents of folks who were sworn enemies of God’s people poised to fulfill those threats.
THAT’S where God will instruct Israel to destroy them - first.
The atheists don’t have any grasp of this because they don’t CARE to even try to understand it. And they hate the Jews too...
I think the God of the Old Testament is the God of the New Testament. The prerogatives of a God is what these folks are upset with. A real God can take your life or restore it, and just because it’s done by God it is acceptable. In our case, we have a God who defines Himself as Just, Merciful, Loving, Eternal, etc. I defer to His interpretation of His own actions and not to the interpretations of some human who can’t even keep himself alive for even a dozen decades.
My answer to the people who try to separate the old testament from the new testament as though the old testament does not really count is this: If you believe this then you must believe that god is schizophrenic.
***any Christians today will say the God of the O.T. is different than the God of the N.T.***
The Demiurge of Marcion and the Manichaeans’ doctrines have returned!
Yup.
"Barbarism is that which prevailed from the days of Adam down through ten generations to the time of Noah. It is called barbarism because of the fact that in those times men had no ruling authority or mutual accord, but every man was independent and a law unto himself after the dictates of his own will." (John of Damascus, "The Fount of Knowledge," cited in Political Apocalypse, Ellis Sandoz, p. 131)
I also believe that our God is consistent. But we are his creations and were created to serve him. We do not get to criticize God for creating us, for how he created us, why he created us. We do not get to judge what is a good pot and what is a bad pot.
The classic example is the command to the Israelites to wipe out the Canaanites as they enter into the promised land.
This will be repeated, on a far greater scale, on the last day.
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