Posted on 03/10/2015 9:58:57 AM PDT by Gamecock
mark
What right does the clay have to complain about the potter?
If the reader can still respect the caucus label, a similarly-titled FR thread from 2012 can be found here:
"Is the God of Calvinism a Moral Monster?” [Calvinist Caucus]
Many Christians today will say the God of the O.T. is different than the God of the N.T.
Clearly a heresy.
Of course the interview deals with the other side of the coin, atheists who like to make God a moral monster.
From where does their moral compass come from?
Good stuff. Thanks, that is helpful in discussions with my atheist brother.
When the potter makes claims about who He is, He is expected to be able to back it up and not hide behind this kind of maxim taken out of context.
And he does.
I disagree. The clay which was created by the potter for the potter’s use, has no claim of authority to judge the potter.
In spite of the very unique covenant between the God of Israel and his people they failed time and time again over and over.
No matter how much Israel failed God, God still loved Jacob.
What really ticked God off about Israel and drove them out of the land was not so much their daily sins, but they have forgotten God and prostituded them selves after other gods, and they didn’t allow the land it’s self to rest.
Saint Paul writes in the book of Galations that the LAW was their ( our ) school master to keep us and train us until the fullness of times until the Messiah.
I know that this will rattle some theology, but the LAW was to show us up, to show us how really currpt and sinful we really are and show us our need of a savoir, Jesus Christ.
The savoir to the Jews first and then to the gentiles.
I know that
may also rattle some theology, but God never had the unique relationship nor the covenant in the old Testament with other nations, only with Israel.
The Old Testament was Jesus Christ concealed, The New Testimemt is Jesus Christ revealed.
God seemed harsh, and a moral monster then in the old testament , no one could approach him and live.
However, thanks be to God that he him self wrapped him self in pure love, pure grace in the flesh in Jesus Christ and came to us.
FOR GRACE AND TRUTH came by Jesus Christ our Lord ( YHVH ) and saviour ( pure grace, pure love ).
The law showed us that we could not have the moral apptitude, the moral strength to keep the law and be acceptible to God, we could not and can save our selves in spite of our best efforts.
BUT GOD !
WHO IS RICH IN MERCY !
FOR HIS GREAT LOVE !
WEREWITH HE LOVED US !
IF ? We could save our selves, then we would have no need of a savoir.
Its ALL GRACE, ALL THE TIME.
God will let people send themselves to hell if they absolutely insist. They are not in a position to complain about the decor on their handcarts, given that they can be lifted off if they will only consent to do so.
A universal morality that is biased towards kindness is only possible to be backed up by a Savior. Otherwise the only right thing that God could do would be to arrange for everyone to be in a cruel hell. Kindness would be wasted. That would not be where our dear atheist friends would want to be, would it?
I disagree, the potter who says he is not a liar but actually does lie, does not become right because he can smash the pot.
The defense is in showing the potter does not lie, and in fact this is the high road and the theme of the whole scripture and history.
She exulted in brutality and butchery.
Is the God of the Old Testament a Moral Monster? An Interview with Dick Belcher
HUH?
There is more then one God? There are different Gods in the Old Testament and the New Testament?
How about God is God and he can be anything and everything he wants to be?
Basically the pot can claim its own maker’s authority. If the maker claims to be truth, then the pot has the right to apply tests of truth.
The scripture referring to this is charging the “pot” with hypocrisy. It is not even being fair to God.
Incorrect. Until the clay can do what the potter does, there is no authority that it can claim.
No, this is an argument of right by might.
We very rightly loathe this in our bones.
And in fact the pot can already discern some truth. The pot is not just told to be a doormat. That might be YOUR spiritual life. It isn’t mine and it isn’t God’s.
The Potter, in this case GOD, can do whatever well he wants with the clay or pot or anything.
Since He is God, He is the arbiter of right and wrong, He is the full and total owner of anything and everything, can destroy us all without one second of moral hesitation. Anything is right or wrong because He says it is, not bound by our eminently mortal ideas of what is right or wrong.
His mercy and grace is that He chose to redeem us, not destroy us.
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