From Fundamentalist Baptist to Catholic – Steve Wilson’s Story

http://www.catholic-convert.com/ ^ | February 26, 2015 | Steve Wilson

[NKP_Vet]

Archbishop Fulton Sheen once wrote: “There are not over a hundred people in the United State who hate the Roman Catholic Church; there are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church.”

I was one of those who hated because of what I wrongly believed about the Catholic Church. The reason I had these beliefs was due to being told what to believe about the Catholic Church from those who were told what to believe about the Catholic Church. No one was willing to find out what the bottom line was concerning the Catholic Church. Everything said about the Church was taken as truth while it seemed no one was delving into what the truth really was.

What about these Catholics? They worshipped Mary. They had a religion but not a relationship with Jesus Christ. They said they believed in God but really their belief couldn’t be the same, could it? The Bible says in James 2:19 KJV “Thou believest that there is one God; Thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble”.

So do Catholics have a belief such as the devils? When most Catholics are asked if they have been “born again” or “have accepted Christ as their Savior”, their main response is “I believe in God” or “I am a good person”, or “I’m Catholic”. Also, they have all these rituals, Saints, Statues and what about the Pope is he really standing in for God? Another big item, are they cannibals when they eat the bread and drink the wine during communion? Why do they leave Jesus on the cross, don’t they realize Jesus has risen from the dead?

For the rest of Steve’s story, click at link.

[metmom]

Luke 18:9-14 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’

But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

[metmom]

It’s tough being a Catholic and very tough being a Catholic priest.

Bondage always is a burden and tough to bear.

Jesus told us that His yoke is easy and His burden light.

If Catholicism is that difficult, it's clear then that it's not of Jesus or Jesus was lying.

[metmom]

is that like predestination???

Peter preached predestination.

1 Peter 1:1-3 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:

May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

[metmom]

Didn't Jesus and John baptize entire households and all within them???

Not as recorded in Scripture anywhere.

[Resettozero]

Joseph; I've had this headache for at LEAST 12 years; now just be a good boy, roll over, and go to SLEEP!

That trip to town where they lost track of Jesus is the last time Joseph appears in the narrative. Correct?

[CynicalBear]

>>is that like predestination???<<

No, that's like an all knowing God knowing the beginning and the end who fully understood what He was doing and the purpose for it.

[Resettozero]

Matthew 16:13-18

Learning to diagram sentences, follow pronoun references, maintain verb tenses...useful stuff, that.

[NKP_Vet]

Oh, come now, we know he was in the Assemblies of God. Just ask brother Swaggart. LOL.

[Resettozero]

There are some of us however who do accept the idea that the sin of Eve was fornication with the devil...We could be wrong but it seems plausible...

Not to this FReeper.

[Springfield Reformer]

There seems to be some room to resolve this amicably.  ES comments that Abel and Cain were of different fathers.  Per Jesus' teaching, as Elsie points out, this can be a true statement, if understood spiritually.  Having gone back over the comments that led us to this point, that was, IMHO, the probable meaning.  

However, there are some who look at the fruit as a metaphor for a sexual liaison between Eve and the serpent.  I have heard this belief before, but no, it most certainly is not even close to standard teaching in evangelical/Protestant assemblies.  If one adopts the historical, grammatical hermeneutic normal to Protestant exegesis, the idea is firmly rejected in this passage:

Genesis 4:1  And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Which clearly depicts Cain as the physical offspring of Adam and Eve, and does not address his spiritual lineage.

However, as with any such eclectic belief, there is typically a standard workaround for the ordinary grammatical meaning, which if known, the fallacy could be exposed, and it is certain to have such a fallacy.  I am not familiar with what that is for this particular passage.   There are metaphors in Scripture, and as I have discussed in the past, there are reasons to see metaphor in some passages, most especially where two distinct domains are compared for their educational value.  There is no such comparison with the fruit of the tree.  Rather, an obligation was stated, Satan induced Eve to question that obligation, and she rejected that obligation.  That alone is sufficient to explain sin and all its dire consequences. Furthermore, there is no cross-domain comparison for the metaphor to come from, other than the imagination of the reader.  So finding a metaphor here is an irrational leap.

So why do some still want to see it as a physical act between Eve and the serpent?  I can only speculate. Perhaps at some level there is a difficulty with the idea of separating the physical from the spiritual.  The two-seed theory, for example, which posits that all saved and lost people follow two distinct physical lineages.  This is a kind of physicalization (made-up word, I know) of the idea of the elect.  There is no justification for it.  Spiritual things are just as real, nay, more real, than anything that happens in the physical domain.  That the Pharisees had Satan for their spiritual father is as solid a fact as them having Abraham for their physical father.  But which was more important, more real?  According to Jesus, their spiritual lineage, because that's where one's future lies.  We who believe are sons and daughters of God, and God is a Spirit.  Yet we are also sons and daughters of fallen Adam and Eve.  By God's grace, our physical lineage will be lost to history, and we will live forever in our true state, as children of our Heavenly Father.  In the end, that's all that matters.

Peace,

SR

[verga]

Bondage always is a burden and tough to bear.

Jesus told us that His yoke is easy and His burden light.

Jesus also had this to say as well:

Mathew 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

And this: Matthew 10:38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

Perhaps you missed this verse as well: Luke 14:27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

And of course: Luke 9:23 And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

Let's not forget this one: 1 Peter 2:21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

How about this one: Mark 8:34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

If Catholicism is that difficult, it's clear then that it's not of Jesus or Jesus was lying.

Maybe you are missing these verses as well: John 15:18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.

Matthew 10:22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

Acts 14:22 strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. "We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God," they said.

1 John 3:13 Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you.

Seems to me the Catholic Church is the one not lying because we are the only ones following Jesus.

I make that as 11 verses for the Catholics, as opposed to 1 out of context for the prots. The Catholic Church wins again.

[CynicalBear]

>>I hope this isn't going to one of those cases where you all close ranks and ignore the elephant in the room.<<

Thinking that all non Catholics are Protestants will cause ignorant comments like that.

[CynicalBear]

>>Peter preached predestination.<<

Now there's a concept totally foreign to Catholic theology.

[verga]

Springfield excellent insight

ES the ball is in your court: Which is it Figurative or did Eve have relations with the Devil?

Genesis 4:1 says Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, "I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD."

[verga]

Thinking that all non Catholics are Protestants will cause ignorant comments like that.

I said non-Catholics, I realize some of the non-Catholics are pagans.

[Resettozero]

Oh maan, now hidden Christians, living at the time of Christ and the Apostles and later and not following the Catholic church...the year 100, 300, 643,...they were hiding somewhere like unicorns...

Sometimes, ridicule works. This time, you're on slippery footing.

[ealgeone]

>I'm sure you recall what God did in Genesis to cover the sins of Adam and Eve.......right?<

Well...He kicked them out of the Garden, condemned them to a life of toil, condemned them to suffer pain, condemned them to die, .....other than that, what???

Those results are the consequence of their sin.....what did He do to cover their sin?

[redleghunter]

Why don't you ask ES why he said what he said. Meaning the difference between spiritual fathers. Don't want to put words in his mouth but am reminded of Christ's words to the Pharisees on who their father (the Devil) was compared to His Father is.

[verga]

Why don't you ask ES why he said what he said.

Up thread I gave him every opportunity to say that. I quoted Genesis 4:1 and he did not back down, he dug in.