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Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation
Catholic Defense ^ | February 25, 2015

Posted on 02/25/2015 11:50:17 AM PST by NYer

Lines from the Lord's Prayer, in various languages.
From the Eucharist Door at the Glory Facade of the Sagrada Família in Barcelona, Spain.

It's Lent in Rome. That means it's time for one of the great Roman traditions: station churches. Each morning, English-speaking pilgrims walk to a different church for Mass. This morning, on the way to St. Anastasia's, I was once again struck by a line in the Our Father: “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” That's a hard thing to pray, It doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. Even the Catechism seems shocked by it:

This petition is astonishing. If it consisted only of the first phrase, "And forgive us our trespasses," it might have been included, implicitly, in the first three petitions of the Lord's Prayer, since Christ's sacrifice is "that sins may be forgiven." But, according to the second phrase, our petition will not be heard unless we have first met a strict requirement. Our petition looks to the future, but our response must come first, for the two parts are joined by the single word "as."
Upon arriving at Mass, I discovered that the Gospel for the day was Matthew 6:7-15, in which Christ introduces this prayer. That seemed too serendipitous to simply be a coincidence. Then Archbishop Di Noia, O.P., got up to preach the homily, and it was all about how to understand this particular petition. So here goes: I think that the Lord's Prayer is flatly inconsistent with sola fide, the Protestant doctrine of justification by faith alone. Here's why.

In this line of the Lord's Prayer, Jesus seems to be explicitly conditioning our forgiveness on our forgiving. Indeed, it's hard to read “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us” any other way. What's more, after introducing the prayer, Jesus focuses on this line, in particular. Here's how He explains it (Matthew 6:14-15):
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
So to be forgiven, you must forgive. If you do, you'll be forgiven. If you don't, you won't be. It's as simple as that.

So Christ has now told us three times that our being forgiven is conditioned upon our forgiving, using the most explicit of language. How does Luther respond to this? “God forgives freely and without condition, out of pure grace.” And what is Calvin's response? “The forgiveness, which we ask that God would give us, does not depend on the forgiveness which we grant to others.”

Their theology forces them to deny Christ's plain words, since admitting them would concede that we need something more than faith alone: we also need to forgive our neighbors. They've painted themselves into a corner, theologically. To get out of it, they change this part of the Our Father into either a way that we can know that we're saved (Luther's approach: that God “set this up for our confirmation and assurance for a sign alongside of the promise which accords with this prayer”) or a non-binding moral exhortation (Calvin's: “to remind us of the feelings which we ought to cherish towards brethren, when we desire to be reconciled to God”).

Modern Protestants tend to do the same thing with these verses, and countless other passages in which Christ or the New Testament authors teach us about something besides faith that's necessary for salvation. We see this particularly in regards to the Biblical teaching on the saving role of Baptism (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21) and works (Matthew 25:31-46; Romans 2:6-8; James 2). There are three common tactics employed:

  1. Reverse the causality. If a passage says that you must do X in order to be saved, claim that it really means that if you're saved, you'll just naturally do X. Thus, X is important for showing that you're saved, but it doesn't actually do anything, and certainly isn't necessary for salvation (even if the Bible says otherwise: Mark 16:16).
  2. No True Scotsman. If Scripture says that someone believed and then lost their salvation (like Simon the Magician in Acts 8, or the heretics mentioned in 2 Peter 2), say that they must not have ever actually believed (even if the Bible says the opposite: Acts 8:13, 2 Peter 2:1, 20-22).
  3. Spiritualize the passage into oblivion. If the Bible says that Baptism is necessary for salvation, argue that this is just a “spiritual” Baptism that means nothing more than believing. And if you need to get around the need to be “born of water and the Spirit” (John 3:5) spiritualize this, too, to get rid of the need for water. Reduce everything to a symbol, or a metaphor for faith.

In fairness to both the Reformers and to modern Protestants, they want to avoid any notion that we can earn God's forgiveness or our salvation. This doesn't justify denying or distorting Christ's words, but it's a holy impulse. And in fact, it was the theme of Abp. Di Noia's homily this morning. Grace is a gift, and what's more, grace is what enables us to forgive others. This point is key, because it explains why Christ isn't teaching something like Pelagianism.

God freely pours out His graces upon us, which bring about both (a) our forgiveness, and (b) our ability to forgive others. But we can choose to accept that grace and act upon it, or to reject it. And that decision has eternal consequences. Such an understanding is harmonious with Christ's actual words, while avoiding any idea that we possess the power to earn our salvation.

So both Catholics and Protestants reject Pelagianism, but there's a critical difference. Catholics believe that grace enables us to do good works, whereas Protestants tend to believe that grace causes us to do good works. To see why it matters, consider the parable of the unmerciful servant, Matthew 18:21-35. In this parable, we see three things happen:

  1. A debtor is forgiven an enormous debt of ten thousand talents (Mt. 18:25-27). Solely through the grace of the Master (clearly representing God), this man is forgiven his debts (sins). He is in a state of grace.
  2. This debtor refuses to forgive his neighbor of a small debt of 100 denarii (Mt. 18:28-30). The fact that he's been forgiven should enable the debtor to be forgiving: in being forgiven, he's received the equivalent of 60,000,000 denarii, and he's certainly seen a moral model to follow. But he turns away from the model laid out by the Master, and refuses to forgive his neighbor.
  3. This debtor is unforgiven by his Master (Mt. 18:32-35). The kicker comes at the very end: “And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”
Now, consider all of the Protestant work-arounds discussed above. To deny that this debtor was ever really forgiven would be an insult to the Master and in contradiction to the text. To say that, if we're forgiven, we'll just naturally forgive is equally a contradiction: this debtor is forgiven, and doesn't. To treat the need to forgive the other debtor as a non-binding moral exhortation would have been a fatal error. 

This parable gets to the heart of the issue. The Master's forgiveness is freely given, and cannot be earned. But that doesn't mean it's given unconditionally or irrevocably. Quite the contrary: Christ shows us in this parable that it can be repealed, and tells us why: if we refuse to forgive, we will not be forgiven. It turns out, the Lord's Prayer actually means what it says.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: bumpusadsummum; calvin; catholic; faithalone; forgiveness; forgivingtrespasses; luther; ourfather; paternoster; prayer; solafide; thelordsprayer; theourfather
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To: Gamecock
LOL, good pic. I am glad it is not a picture of a shovel. I don't think I need to worry anymore, as I think I have passed the point of no return. I am no longer capable of swimming the filthy, polluted Tiber. I am not a big fan of what's on the other side. 😂😎
61 posted on 02/25/2015 3:51:05 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: ImaGraftedBranch
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

It seems the Holy Spirit through Paul disagrees with you. I'll stay with what the Holy Spirit says out right.

62 posted on 02/25/2015 3:53:55 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Arkansas Toothpick

Amen!


63 posted on 02/25/2015 4:09:25 PM PST by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: Alex Murphy

Fair game...


64 posted on 02/25/2015 4:09:28 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: daniel1212; NYer

Also refutes “confession” to a priest..but who is counting ??


65 posted on 02/25/2015 4:11:36 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: bike800; NYer
I have often wondered how people get around revelations 20:12 : I saw the dead great and small...and all were judged by what was in the book...each according to his deeds. It seems fairly clear cut. Faith is obviously necessary...but cooperation with that faith translates to deeds...faith without works...

Because context is your key....

Rev 20:11-15

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

66 posted on 02/25/2015 4:11:37 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: CynicalBear

The first time Christ’s disciples left him, was when he said, literally, that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood, because they were real food and real drink. When His disciples questioned his literal statements, He doubled down — when what they wanted to hear was that it was just an alliteration.
It was not, and they left! Christ asked whether His apostles would also leave after hearing this truth. Of course not; Christ had the “words of life” — to whom would they go?

I bring this up as your comment discussed a literal New Testament statement by Paul. Why aren’t Christ’s literal words enough?


67 posted on 02/25/2015 4:11:55 PM PST by ImaGraftedBranch (If you haven't figured it out, there is a great falling away...happening before your eyes.)
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To: bike800; CynicalBear; metmom; boatbums; daniel1212; redleghunter
I have often wondered how people get around revelations 20:12 : I saw the dead great and small...and all were judged by what was in the book...each according to his deeds.

Let me take a stab at explaining how we get around that. It is rather simple. The dead standing before God, are just that. Dead, spiritually dead. Not one saved person will be standing there. It is not a judgement to determine if they are going to Heaven or Hell. That was already chiseled in stone for eternity, the day they died physicalIy. Every single solitary one of them, standing before God at the great white throne judgement, WILL go to the Lake of Fire. The judgement is only to determine their degree of punishment, nothing more than that. 😪

68 posted on 02/25/2015 4:12:51 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: Salvation; metmom
The thread is about the Lord’s Prayer.

Yea but He could not have prayed it if Mary was not "Immaculately conceived" and a virgin after marriage.. ...see it always goes back to mary we know that because of the "assumption" that we read about in Acts < /sarcasm >

69 posted on 02/25/2015 4:14:57 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: ImaGraftedBranch

Christ literally said His words were spirit. He literally said the flesh didn’t profit anything. He literally told John in Revelation to eat the scroll. He said rivers of water would run from your belly. He literally set the law against eating blood. He literally had to abide by every law to be considered sin free.


70 posted on 02/25/2015 4:18:31 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: .45 Long Colt
"Christ speaks of finding rest for your soul in Him. He said “For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Now here, my FRiends, is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...rest for our souls as we don't attempt to create a righteousness of our own, but cling to His immutable, vicariously delivered holiness. And, His blood forgives our brokenness and inability, our failure to be the people we should be. Thank you, .45 Long Colt...you are dead on the target (actually you are alive on the target, but the pun was irresistible).

71 posted on 02/25/2015 4:27:32 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Salvation

No, I don’t recite rote prayers.


72 posted on 02/25/2015 4:31:28 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: CynicalBear
"That old “rightly dividing” gets them every time."

Correct. It is astonishing the slavery that Rome delivers through bad interpretations.

73 posted on 02/25/2015 4:31:49 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Salvation

Nice attempt at a dodge though.

It’s all there for all to see that Catholics DO pray to Mary and ask her for things, things that only God Himself can give.

Which means they’re engaging in idolatry and at the very least, all that time praying those useless prayers that can’t be answered, is wasted time.


74 posted on 02/25/2015 4:33:21 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: bike800

Nope.

Those who won’t trust Christ for salvation have nothing but their works to be judged on.

And that’s what many people want anyway. God is just judging them according to how they want to be judged.

And it isn’t going to end well.

They appeal to their works. Their works will condemn them at the last.


75 posted on 02/25/2015 4:35:07 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: CynicalBear

I am a Catholic, baptized and confirmed. My siblings and their spouses and families are Catholic. My oldest son ( also a freeper) is a devout Catholic, whose heart is the largest I will ever know. My youngest son is the most theologically gifted young man I have ever seen, in his junior year of college, with 4 years of Koine Greek and two years of Hebrew behind him ( and more to come), and has the greatest understanding of not only scripture, but early church fathers and exegetical scholarship as well, that I have herd of for a young man.
My youngest, by the way, will be a Protestant pastor. I LOVE going to churches where he is asked to preach. I just don’t partake of communion there.

WE ALL LOVE THE LORD, with the same passion, desire and yearning.

My two sons, one Catholic, and one Protestant, have the greatest love and affection for each other, and STRENGTHEN each other continuously.

Why is that?

Because it is not about us. It is NEVER about us. It is always, and forever more, about Jesus.
Live for Him. But please, we need to concentrate on the real issues. There are Christians being slaughtered continuously, and I come on this forum and see these flame wars and my heart breaks.

My wife is also Protestant, and on Sunday’s when I go to her church with her, 1 out of every 4 Sunday’s there is some kind of attack against Catholics.

Why don’t I ever, ever hear similar against Protestants at the Catholic Churches?
Because the mass is about Jesus. Not us.

Thanks to God my youngest is a true scholar, and having understood the foundation of Christianity, is well beyond the nitpicking that goes on here.

Jesus weeps.


76 posted on 02/25/2015 4:38:07 PM PST by ImaGraftedBranch (If you haven't figured it out, there is a great falling away...happening before your eyes.)
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To: ImaGraftedBranch
Why aren’t Christ’s literal words enough?

Matthew 23: 8-10 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.

Oh, and have you gouged out any eyes lately, or cut off your hand?

What about snake handling or drinking poison? How's that working out for you?

77 posted on 02/25/2015 4:40:08 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: ImaGraftedBranch

No one ever said there were not true believers attending the Catholic Church. It’s the errors of the Catholic Church teaching that is the focus. God said “come out of her my people lest ye be partakers of her plagues”. That alone tells me that there are people who He calls His even in the “church” He called the whore of Babylon. That has always meant a church or nation that incorporated paganism.


78 posted on 02/25/2015 4:47:15 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Dutchboy88
Well, I was indeed dead, but due to His plenteous mercy and grace, I've been made alive.

With the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption--Psalm 130:7

Soli Deo Gloria!

79 posted on 02/25/2015 5:01:44 PM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: CynicalBear

Great. Now reconcile that with what I posted from James 2. If you don’t understand Romans, James 2 will seem to contradict. What do you say?


80 posted on 02/25/2015 5:10:24 PM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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