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Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation
Catholic Defense ^ | February 25, 2015

Posted on 02/25/2015 11:50:17 AM PST by NYer

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To: CynicalBear
Catholics think that if we “just read” we would somehow capitulate

You often start your comments by saying "Catholics think that ..." followed by things (such as the above) that we do not think. I do not think that "if [you] “just read” [you] would somehow capitulate".

No, I implied that if you read it and think about it then you might know what actually follows the words "Catholics think that ...

261 posted on 02/26/2015 1:34:52 PM PST by edwinland
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To: Elsie

No one who thinks dead people are dead is a Christian.


262 posted on 02/26/2015 1:45:59 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: edwinland

So you didn’t think that “will help you understand in a more practical, human way the Catholic perspective” ey? Practical human way? You want a “practical human way”. I’ll take the way of the Holy Spirit understanding of God’s way thank you very much.


263 posted on 02/26/2015 1:51:53 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Resettozero
Has anyone in the RCC ever said why your church is not call the Roman Christian Church? Why the undying attachment to the word “Catholic” and detachment from the word “Christ-ian” in how you identify your church to the world?

By RCC do you mean the 'Roman Catholic Church'? The term 'Roman Catholic Church' is not the proper name of the Catholic Church and it is not used by the Church herself. The proper name of the Catholic Church is simply the "Catholic Church".

To answer your question, the term "The Catholic Church" was adopted sometime in the First Century A.D.

The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "the catholic church" can be found in Saint Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Christians in Smyrna in approximately AD 110.

It can also be found in the Nicene Creed which refers to the "one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church." As the Creed was formalized over a millenium before the reformation, the name was not attempting to address divisions which arose much later among the Churches.

Incidentally, other Christian churches have names such as "The United Methodist Church", "The Church of England" and there's also the Southern Baptist Convention. I don't think in any of these cases they are "detaching" themselves from the word Christian in how they identify themselves to the world.

264 posted on 02/26/2015 2:03:15 PM PST by edwinland
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To: daniel1212

Thanks Daniel. I had a real problem with that post. Thanks for your efforts.


265 posted on 02/26/2015 2:09:39 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: edwinland
The term 'Roman Catholic Church' is not the proper name of the Catholic Church and it is not used by the Church herself.

I agree with you, but weirdly the vatican website has about 700 hits for the term "roman catholic church"... MOST of those hits seem to come from the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, Kasper's old stomping grounds.

266 posted on 02/26/2015 2:11:23 PM PST by Legatus (Either way, we're screwed.)
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To: redleghunter
LOL post #226 was removed because Arthur used “the name that shall not be named.”

They are fascinated with that guy...

267 posted on 02/26/2015 2:22:05 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Elsie

Limbo. Provided the theory was true.

Limbo was a theory about what happened to unbaptized babies at death. The difficulty the theory attempted to resolve was that, not having committed any personal sin, they could not be damned, yet, being unbaptized, they could not enjoy the Beatific Vision.

No baptized person could go to Limbo because a baptized person in the state of mortal sin would be damned, and a baptized person in the state of grace would eventually enter Heaven.


268 posted on 02/26/2015 2:23:48 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Iscool
They are fascinated with that guy...

That's because he seems to be the source material for much of what FRanti-Catholics believe about the Church. I find it endlessly fascinating that one can says the same things but not credit the original source.

269 posted on 02/26/2015 2:26:27 PM PST by Legatus (Either way, we're screwed.)
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To: Arthur McGowan
No one who thinks dead people are dead is a Christian.

No one who thinks God has a mother is a Christian...

270 posted on 02/26/2015 2:26:46 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Grateful2God
God bless you, no joke! : ) (No cool emojis either, darn it!)

Thanks again. 😄 I am not an expert computer savy person. I can only put those little things on here, using my IPhone 5. I can't do it using my Mac. I don't know why there is a difference.

271 posted on 02/26/2015 2:27:37 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: Arthur McGowan; Elsie
>>No one who thinks dead people are dead is a Christian.<<

Paul is really going to be disappointed as will millions of others.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

272 posted on 02/26/2015 2:29:00 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: edwinland
To answer your question, the term "The Catholic Church" was adopted sometime in the First Century A.D.

The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "the catholic church" can be found in Saint Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Christians in Smyrna in approximately AD 110.

You own a used car lot as well??? Why do you guys always refer to Ignatius' forged writings??? And Catholic is not the same as catholic...

273 posted on 02/26/2015 2:29:52 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Arthur McGowan
when it comes to Mary, you gratuitously make the same old, same old accusation: Namely, that we Catholics secretly are taught, behind closed doors and drawn curtains, to worship Mary. The thousands of textbooks, catechisms, conciliar declarations, papal declarations, saying that Catholics DO NOT worship Mary have all been published in an attempt to deceive Protestants. SECRETLY, Catholics are taught the OPPOSITE of what is in ALL Catholic catechisms, etc.

No one has ever made that claim...You're pretty quick and loose with the false accusations...Part of the job???

No doubt Catholics worship Mary out of ignorance...Your leaders tell you it isn't worship while it clearly is...Praying TO Mary is worship...

274 posted on 02/26/2015 2:37:58 PM PST by Iscool
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To: CynicalBear
>>They worship a church of their own making.<<

It's no different then the Mormons or JWs.

There are some cults here, that you could to that list.

275 posted on 02/26/2015 3:08:55 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Discuss the issues do not make it personal.


276 posted on 02/26/2015 3:16:35 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: edwinland
To answer your question...

Then you proceed not to.

You offered me and other FReepers a bunch of words posted as if to a child who has never previously heard of the Catholic Church (Roman rite) headed by a pope in the Vatican (Rome) Italy or aware of the other RCC versions of church history.

Disingenuous response and not an acceptable answer to the sincere question asked.
277 posted on 02/26/2015 3:29:26 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: CynicalBear
it’s unscriptural paganism and the double speak is astounding.

Gloom, despair and agony on me. Oh, never mind. You already know. 😄

278 posted on 02/26/2015 3:29:36 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: Iscool

Fascinated, is not the word I would use. Obsessed is more like it.


279 posted on 02/26/2015 3:33:42 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: Legatus
That's because he seems to be the source material for much of what FRanti-Catholics believe about the Church. I find it endlessly fascinating that one can says the same things but not credit the original source.

So you're an expert on the one who can't be named as well...Are you another priest???

The 'source' is not from this generation...The source is the history of the Catholic church and the words of God, the scriptures...In fact, for years Christians has been posting the sources of their information about the Catholic religion...Much of it comes from the Catholic religion...

280 posted on 02/26/2015 3:36:12 PM PST by Iscool
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