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Mary Matters (Dr. Walter Martin on disbelief in the Mother of God)
Catholic Exchange ^ | JULY 26, 2014 | Tim Staples

Posted on 01/24/2015 3:23:43 PM PST by NYer

In my new book, Behold Your Mother: A Biblical and Historical Defense of the Marian Doctrines, , I spend most of its pages in classic apologetic defense of Mary as Mother of God, defending her immaculate conception, perpetual virginity, assumption into heaven, her Queenship, and her role in God’s plan of salvation as Co-redemptrix and Mediatrix. But perhaps my most important contributions in the book may well be how I demonstrate each of these doctrines to be crucial for our spiritual lives and even our salvation.

And I should note that this applies to all of the Marian doctrines. Not only Protestants, but many Catholics will be surprised to see how the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, for example, is crucial for all Christians to understand lest they misapprehend the truth concerning the sacred, marriage, sacraments, the consecrated life, and more.

I won’t attempt to re-produce the entire book in this post, but I will choose one example among examples I use to demonstrate why Mary as Mother of God not only matters, but how denying this dogma of the Faith can end in the loss of understanding of “the one true God and Jesus Christ whom [God] has sent” (John 17:3). It doesn’t get any more serious than that!  

In my book, I use the teaching of the late, well-known, and beloved Protestant Apologist, Dr. Walter Martin, as one of my examples. In his classic apologetics work, Kingdom of the Cults, Dr. Martin, gives us keen insight into why the dogma of the Theotokos (“God-bearer,” a synonym with “Mother of God”) is such a “big deal.” But first some background information.

 Truth and Consequences

It is very easy to state what it is that you don’t believe. That has been the history of Protestantism. Protestantism itself began as a… you guessed it… “protest.” “We are against this, this, this, and this.” It was a “protest” against Catholicism. However, the movement could not continue to exist as a protestant against something. It had to stand for something. And that is when the trouble began. When groups of non-infallible men attempted to agree, the result ended up being the thousands of Protestant sects we see today.

Dr. Walter Martin was a good Protestant. He certainly and boldly proclaimed, “I do not believe Mary is the Mother of God.” That’s fine and good. The hard part came when he had to build a theology congruent with his denial. With Dr. Martin, it is difficult to know for sure whether his bad Christology came before or after his bad Mariology—I argue it was probably bad Christology that came first—but let’s just say for now that in the process of theologizing about both Jesus and Mary, he ended up claiming Mary was “the mother of Jesus’ body,” and not the Mother of God. He claimed Mary “gave Jesus his human nature alone,” so that we cannot say she is the Mother of God; she is the mother of the man, Jesus Christ.

This radical division of humanity and divinity manifests itself in various ways in Dr. Martin’s theology. He claimed, for example, that “sonship” in Christ has nothing at all to do with God in his eternal relations within the Blessed Trinity. In Martin’s Christology, divinity and humanity are so sharply divided that he concluded “eternal sonship” to be an unbiblical Catholic invention. On page 103 of his 1977 edition of The Kingdom of the Cults, he wrote:

[T]here cannot be any such thing as eternal Sonship, for there is a logical contradiction of terminology due to the fact that the word “Son” predicates time and the involvement of creativity. Christ, the Scripture tells us, as the Logos, is timeless, “…the Word was in the beginning” not the Son!

From Martin’s perspective then, Mary as “Mother of God” is a non-starter. If “Son of God” refers to Christ as the eternal son, then there would be no denying that Mary is the mother of the Son of God, who is God; hence, Mother of God would be an inescapable conclusion. But if sonship only applies to “time and creativity,” then references to Mary’s “son” would not refer to divinity at all.

But there is just a little problem here. Beyond the fact that you don’t even need the term “Son” at all to determine Mary is the Mother God because John 1:14 tells us “the Word was made flesh,” and John 1:1 tells us “the Word was God;” thus, Mary is the mother of the Word and so she is the Mother of God anyway, the sad fact is that in the process of Martin’s theologizing he ended up losing the real Jesus. Notice, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity is no longer the Eternal Son! And it gets worse from here, if that is possible! Martin would go on:

The term “Son” itself is a functional term, as is the term “Father” and has no meaning apart from time. The term “Father” incidentally never carries the descriptive adjective “eternal” in Scripture; as a matter of fact, only the Spirit is called eternal (“the eternal Spirit”—Hebrews 9:14), emphasizing the fact that the words Father and Son are purely functional as previously stated.

It would be difficult to overstate the importance of what we are saying here. Jesus revealed to us the essential truth that God exists eternally as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in his inner life. For Martin, God would be father by analogy in relation to the humanity of Christ, but not in the eternal divine relations; hence, he is not the eternal Father. So, not only did Dr. Martin end up losing Jesus, the eternal Son; he lost the Father as well! This compels us to ask the question: Who then is God, the Blessed Trinity, in eternity, according to Dr. Walter Martin and all those who agree with his theology? He is not Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He must be the eternal … Blahthe Word, and the Holy Spirit (Martin did teach Christ to be the Eternal Word, just not the Eternal Son). He would become a father by analogy when he created the universe and again by analogy at the incarnation of the Word and through the adoption of all Christians as “sons of God.” But he would not be the eternal Father. The metaphysical problems begin here and continue to eternity… literally. Let us now summarize Dr. Martin’s teaching and some of the problems it presents:

1. Fatherhood and Sonship would not be intrinsic to God. The Catholic Church understands that an essential aspect of Christ’s mission was to reveal God to us as he is in his inner life as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Jews already understood God to be father by analogy, but they had no knowledge of God as eternal Father in relation to the Eternal Son. In Jesus’ great high priestly prayer in John 17, he declared his Father was Father “before the world was made” and thus, to quote CCC 239, in “an unheard-of sense.” In fact, Christ revealed God’s name as Father. Names in Hebrew culture reveal something about the character of the one named. Thus, he reveals God to be Father, not just that he is like a father. God never becomes Father; he is the eternal Father

2. If Sonship applies only to humanity and time, the “the Son” would also be extrinsic, or outside, if you will, of the Second Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity. Thus, as much as he would have denied it, Dr. Martin effectively creates two persons to represent Christ—one divine and one human. This theology leads to the logical conclusion that the person who died on the cross 2,000 years ago would have been merely a man. If that were so, he would have no power to save us. Scripture reveals Christ as the savior, not merely a delegate of God the savior. He was fully man in order to make fitting atonement for us. He was fully God in order to have the power to save us.

3. This theology completely reduces the revelation of God in the New Covenant that separates Christianity from all religions of the world. Jesus revealed God as he is from all eternity as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Dr. Martin reduces this to mere function. Thus, “Father” does not tell us who God is, only what God does. Radical feminists do something similar when they refuse to acknowledge God as “Father.” God becomes reduced to that which he does as “Creator, Redeeemer, and Sanctifier” and int he process where is a truly tragic loss of the knowledge of who God is. In the case of Dr. Walter Martin, it was bad theology that lead to a similar loss.

4. There is a basic metaphysical principle found, for example, in Malachi 3:6, that comes into play here as well: “For I the Lord do not change.” In defense of Dr. Martin, he did seem to realize that one cannot posit change in the divine persons. As stated above, “fatherhood” and “sonship” wold not relate to divinity at all in his way of thinking. Thus, he became a proper Nestorian (though he would never have admitted that) that divides Christ into two persons. And that is bad enough. However, one must be very careful here because when one posits the first person of the Blessed Trinity became the Father, and the second person of the Blessed Trinity became the Son, it becomes very easy to slip into another heresy that would admit change into the divine persons. Later in Behold Your Mother, I employ the case of a modern Protestant apologist who regrettably takes that next step. But you’ll have to get the book to read about that one.

The bottom line here is this: It appears Dr. Walter Martin’s bad Christology led to a bad Mariology. But I argue in Behold Your Mother that if he would have understood Mary as Theotokos, it would have been impossible for him to lose his Christological bearings. The moment the thought of sonship as only applying to humanity in Christ would have arisen, a Catholic Dr. Walter Martin would have known that Mary is Mother of God. He would have lost neither the eternal Son nor the eternal Father because Theotokos would have guarded him from error. The prophetic words of Lumen Gentium 65 immediately come to mind: “Mary… unites in her person and re-echoes the most important doctrines of the faith.” A true Mariology serves as a guarantor against bad Christology.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; christology; mariandoctrine; motherofgod; theology; virginmary
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To: 2nd amendment mama; metmom; boatbums; Elsie; CynicalBear
Actually, as a former Catholic, it is because of what the Catholic Church teaches that I now attend a Bible Based Church. I'd rather follow God's written word and receive his Grace than follow man's legalism which leads to death in the Lord. (Romans 3:21-24)

There are a few of us around. Praise the Lord. No more bondage. I was never much into bondage anyway, so it suits me just fine. Ain't life grand?

:-)

1,261 posted on 01/28/2015 1:11:41 AM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love will sail forever, bright and shining, strong n free. Like an ark of peace and safety)
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To: metmom
or that she did not remain a virgin after the birth of Christ.

Do you think they might be cringing that Mary was getting away with something?

:-)

1,262 posted on 01/28/2015 1:20:43 AM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love will sail forever, bright and shining, strong n free. Like an ark of peace and safety)
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To: CA Conservative
And yet neither of those points have anything to do with salvation...

Affirmative sir. Salvation is the only thing that matters. If they don't get that right, it doesn't matter if they have anything else right.

1,263 posted on 01/28/2015 1:27:05 AM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love will sail forever, bright and shining, strong n free. Like an ark of peace and safety)
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To: Gamecock
Burning in the bosom?

Is Joe Smith anywhere near? BTW, I still haven't had any desire to swim the Tiber, so back off with that shovel

:-)

1,264 posted on 01/28/2015 1:37:44 AM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love will sail forever, bright and shining, strong n free. Like an ark of peace and safety)
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To: omegatoo; Elsie
So you do not live by every word that comes from the mouth of God. The scripture doesn’t say written, or important, or necessary. It says ‘every word’. So if you disregard words that are not written in the bible, you are not following the bible.

You show us the words that came from the mouth of God which are not written in the word of God, and we'll be sure to follow them...

How about you provide some of them for us...

1,265 posted on 01/28/2015 1:49:07 AM PST by Iscool
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To: omegatoo
Nope, John is talking about what he himself has written, in that letter, and he doesn't come close to saying that there is nothing else that is true.

That wasn't even the topic...The topic was Catholic doctrine outside of what is written in the scriptures...And John answers it nicely...

1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Joh 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

You can't get any more clear than that...John gave us everything there is to know about achieving eternal life...So if everything is there, there's nothing that can be added by your religion as a requirement for salvation...

1Co_4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

It's a reference to what was written in the letter:

For while one saith, I indeed am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollo; are you not men? What then is Apollo, and what is Paul? [5] The ministers of him whom you have believed; and to every one as the Lord hath given. [6] I have planted, Apollo watered, but God gave the increase. [7] Therefore, neither he that planteth is any thing, nor he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Throughout the letter, Paul was admonishing his followers not to forget that they were all following Jesus, not the Apostles, and not to think higher of men like Paul and Apollo than Paul had just written to explain.

Paul was using them as an example...In another verse he spoke the same of Peter (that ought to be a warning to Catholics)...The context is for anyone that the followers of Jesus single out to place on a pedestal...Such as Mary, or popes...It is NOT just a reference to the two apostles named...

The bible wasn't completed when this letter was written, so Paul couldn't possible have meant to only believe what hadn't been written yet. I doubt he knew that his letters would end up as several books of the bible.

Paul wasn't just some hack taking notes...Paul was chosen by God to be the apostle to the Gentiles...I'm sure Paul knew the gravity of his letters...The ones he wrote and those not yet written...

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Topic of this letter is circumcision.

No it isn't...The topic is preaching any other gospel than the gospel of the grace of God...

It is doubtful that Paul would be saying that only what is in the bible was true, because he just contradicted it. He said, what I preach to you is more true than what is in the bible. Since the New Testament wasn't written yet, he was saying what is NOT written in the bible is the truth.

But what he preached made it to the bible...Paul knew what he was talking about...

1,266 posted on 01/28/2015 2:53:39 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Mark17

Actually life is wonderful - more Joyful than I ever could have imagined! There are quite a few ex’s in my church. We all feel the same way. Having a very PERSONAL relationship with Jesus is awesome.


1,267 posted on 01/28/2015 3:18:03 AM PST by 2nd amendment mama ( www.2asisters.org | Self defense is a basic human right!)
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To: terycarl
the Pope of all Christianity

NOPE! He's the Pope of Catholics NOT all Christianity.

1,268 posted on 01/28/2015 3:29:11 AM PST by 2nd amendment mama ( www.2asisters.org | Self defense is a basic human right!)
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To: terycarl

.....”He is a public figure...the Pope of all Christianity”....

A public figure ..yes...

The Pope of Christianity..no......Christinity doesn’t have a Pope we have a Savior Messiah King...

..Catholicism has a Pope...Like Islam has Muhammed....they just put another one in place after the last one is gone.


1,269 posted on 01/28/2015 3:43:32 AM PST by caww
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To: 2nd amendment mama; terycarl
2 Thessalonians 2, verses 3-12:

"3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

From Matthew Henry's Bible Commentary on those verses:

I. A general apostasy, there would come a falling away first, 2 Thess. 2:3. By this apostasy we are not to understand a defection in the state, or from civil government, but in spiritual or religious matters, from sound doctrine, instituted worship and church government, and a holy life. The apostle speaks of some very great apostasy, not only of some converted Jews or Gentiles, but such as should be very general, though gradual, and should give occasion to the revelation of rise of antichrist, that man of sin. This, he says (2 Thess. 2:5), he had told them of when he was with them, with design, no doubt, that they should not take offence nor be stumbled at it. And let us observe that no sooner was Christianity planted and rooted in the world than there began to be a defection in the Christian church. It was so in the Old-Testament church; presently after any considerable advance made in religion there followed a defection: soon after the promise there was revolting; for example, soon after men began to call upon the name of the Lord all flesh corrupted their way,—soon after the covenant with Noah the Babel-builders bade defiance to heaven,—soon after the covenant with Abraham his seed degenerated in Egypt,—soon after the Israelites were planted in Canaan, when the first generation was worn off, they forsook God and served Baal,—soon after God’s covenant with David his seed revolted, and served other gods,—soon after the return out of captivity there was a general decay of piety, as appears by the story of Ezra and Nehemiah; and therefore it was no strange thing that after the planting of Christianity there should come a falling away.

II. A revelation of that man of sin, that is (2 Thess. 2:3), antichrist would take his rise from this general apostasy. The apostle afterwards speaks of the revelation of that wicked one (2 Thess. 2:8), intimating the discovery which should be made of his wickedness, in order to his ruin: here he seems to speak of his rise, which should be occasioned by the general apostasy he had mentioned, and to intimate that all sorts of false doctrines and corruptions should centre in him. Great disputes have been as to who or what is intended by this man of sin and son of perdition: and, if it be not certain that the papal power and tyranny are principally or only intended, yet this is plain, What is here said does very exactly agree thereto. For observe,

1. The names of this person, or rather the state and power here spoken of. He is called the man of sin, to denote his egregious wickedness; not only is he addicted to, and practises, wickedness himself, but he also promotes, countenances, and commands sin and wickedness in others; and he is the son of perdition, because he himself is devoted to certain destruction, and is the instrument of destroying many others both in soul and body. These names may properly be applied, for these reasons, to the papal state; and thereto agree also,

2. The characters here given, 2 Thess. 2:4. (1.) That he opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or is worshipped; and thus have the bishops of Rome not only opposed God’s authority, and that of the civil magistrates, who are called gods, but have exalted themselves above God and earthly governors, in demanding greater regard to their commands than to the commands of God or the magistrate. (2.) As God, he sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. As God was in the temple of old, and worshipped there, and is in and with his church now, so the antichrist here mentioned is some usurper of God’s authority in the Christian church, who claims divine honours; and to whom can this better apply than to the bishops of Rome, to whom the most blasphemous titles have been given, as Dominus Deus noster papa—Our Lord God the pope; Deus alter in terrâ—Another God on earth; Idem est dominium Dei et papae—The dominion of God and the pope is the same?

3. His rise is mentioned, 2 Thess. 2:6, 7. Concerning this we are to observe two things:—(1.) There was something that hindered or withheld, or let, until it was taken away. This is supposed to be the power of the Roman empire, which the apostle did not think fit to mention more plainly at that time; and it is notorious that, while this power continued, it prevented the advances of the bishops of Rome to that height of tyranny to which soon afterwards they arrived. (2.) This mystery of iniquity was gradually to arrive at its height; and so it was in effect that the universal corruption of doctrine and worship in the Romish church came in by degrees, and the usurpation of the bishops of Rome was gradual, not all at once; and thus the mystery of iniquity did the more easily, and almost insensibly, prevail. The apostle justly calls it a mystery of iniquity, because wicked designs and actions were concealed under false shows and pretences, at least they were concealed from the common view and observation. By pretended devotion, superstition and idolatry were advanced; and, by a pretended zeal for God and his glory, bigotry and persecution were promoted. And he tells us that this mystery of iniquity did even then begin, or did already work. While the apostles were yet living, the enemy came, and sowed tares; there were then the deeds of the Nicolaitans, persons who pretended zeal for Christ, but really opposed him. Pride, ambition, and worldly interest of church-pastors and church-rulers, as in Diotrephes and others, were the early working of the mystery of iniquity, which, by degrees, came to that prodigious height which has been visible in the church of Rome.

4. The fall or ruin of the antichristian state is declared, 2 Thess. 2:8. The head of this antichristian kingdom is called that wicked one, or that lawless person who sets up a human power in competition with, and contradiction to, the divine dominion and power of the Lord Jesus Christ; but, as he would thus manifest himself to be the man of sin, so the revelation or discovery of this to the world would be the sure presage and the means of his ruin. The apostle assures the Thessalonians that the Lord would consume and destroy him; the consuming of him precedes his final destruction, and that is by the Spirit of his mouth, by his word of command; the pure word of God, accompanied with the Spirit of God, will discover this mystery of iniquity, and make the power of antichrist to consume and waste away; and in due time it will be totally and finally destroyed, and this will be by the brightness of Christ’s coming. Note, The coming of Christ to destroy the wicked will be with peculiar glory and eminent lustre and brightness.

5. The apostle further describes the reign and rule of this man of sin. Here we are to observe, (1.) The manner of his coming, or ruling, and working: in general, that it is after the example of Satan, the grand enemy of souls, the great adversary of God and man. He is the great patron of error and lies, the sworn enemy of the truth as it is in Jesus and all the faithful followers of Jesus. More particularly, it is with Satanical power and deceit. A divine power is pretended for the support of this kingdom, but it is only after the working of Satan. Signs and wonders, visions and miracles, are pretended; by these the papal kingdom was first set up, and has all along been kept up, but they have false signs to support false doctrines; and lying wonders, or only pretended miracles that have served their cause, things false in fact, or fraudulently managed, to impose upon the people: and the diabolical deceits with which the antichristian state has been supported are notorious. The apostle calls it all deceivableness of unrighteousness, 2 Thess. 2:10. Others may call them pious frauds, but the apostle called them unrighteous and wicked frauds; and, indeed, all fraud (which is contrary to truth) is an impious thing. Many are the subtle artifices the man of sin has used, and various are the plausible pretences by which he had beguiled unwary and unstable souls to embrace false doctrines, and submit to his usurped dominion. (2.) The persons are described who are his willing subjects, or most likely to become such, 2 Thess. 2:10. They are such as love not the truth that they may be saved. They heard the truth (it may be), but they did not love it; they could not bear sound doctrine, and therefore easily imbibed false doctrines; they had some notional knowledge of what was true, but they indulged some powerful prejudices, and so became a prey to seducers. Had they loved the truth, they would have persevered in it, and been preserved by it; but no wonder if they easily parted with what they never had any love to. And of these persons it is said that they perish or are lost; they are in a lost condition, and in danger to be lost for ever. For,

6. We have the sin and ruin of the subjects of antichrist’s kingdom declared, 2 Thess. 2:11, 12. (1.) Their sin is this: They believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness: they did not love the truth, and therefore they did not believe it; and, because they did not believe the truth, therefore they had pleasure in unrighteousness, or in wicked actions, and were pleased with false notions. Note, An erroneous mind and vicious life often go together and help forward one another. (2.) Their ruin is thus expressed: God shall send them strong delusions, to believe a lie. Thus he will punish men for their unbelief, and for their dislike of the truth and love to sin and wickedness; not that God is the author of sin, but in righteousness he sometimes withdraws his grace from such sinners as are here mentioned; he gives them over to Satan, or leaves them to be deluded by his instruments; he gives them up to their own hearts’ lusts, and leaves them to themselves, and then sin will follow of course, yea, the worst of wickedness, that shall end at last in eternal damnation. God is just when he inflicts spiritual judgments here, and eternal punishments hereafter, upon those who have no love to the truths of the gospel, who will not believe them, nor live suitably to them, but indulge false doctrines in their minds, and wicked practices in their lives and conversations.

1,270 posted on 01/28/2015 3:46:48 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: 2nd amendment mama
Actually life is wonderful - more Joyful than I ever could have imagined! There are quite a few ex’s in my church. We all feel the same way. Having a very PERSONAL relationship with Jesus is awesome.

Awesome 🎆😇🆒

1,271 posted on 01/28/2015 3:59:21 AM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love will sail forever, bright and shining, strong n free. Like an ark of peace and safety)
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To: PieterCasparzen
I always thought Mattew Henry was pretty sharp. 🎯
1,272 posted on 01/28/2015 4:21:37 AM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love will sail forever, bright and shining, strong n free. Like an ark of peace and safety)
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To: Arthur McGowan
We're ALL living under the grace of God.

Without His grace on our lives, we wouldn't be drawing our next breath. We'd be burning in hell where we ALL belong unless we've been born again.

The only “nature” a human being has or inherits is his human nature. Sin is a privation or distortion of what is good, but it is not itself a positive reality. There is no “sin nature” existing as an actual “thing.”

human nature = sin nature

Nobody is inherently good until corrupted by sin.

We are sinners by birth into the human race.

We sin because we're sinners, we're not sinners because we sin.

1,273 posted on 01/28/2015 4:23:09 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Arthur McGowan; Iscool
The statement “All have sinned” was made in a context where Mary was not the topic. The author had no intention of addressing exceptions. He wasn’t writing ABOUT Mary; he wasn’t writing TO Mary. He was writing to an audience that WAS 100% sinners. And if he was thinking of future generations of Christians at all, he would know that 100% of THEM would be sinners.

You know what Paul was thinking and why he wrote what he did?

You know what the Holy Spirit was thinking and why He inspired what he did?

Talk about mind reading.

1,274 posted on 01/28/2015 4:25:47 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: ADSUM

Pretty cool that you don’t have to worry about funeral expenses.


1,275 posted on 01/28/2015 4:27:22 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: MamaB

Not likely since it’s based on Scripture.


1,276 posted on 01/28/2015 4:28:40 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: ADSUM
You obviously don’t like the words of Jesus: “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you”

You obviously don’t like the words of Jesus:

 

John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”


1,277 posted on 01/28/2015 4:31:08 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ADSUM
I have posted the relevant part of John 6.

Golly!

I just did the same!!!

1,278 posted on 01/28/2015 4:31:45 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Arthur McGowan
I see reference to “the flesh.” That’s human nature in the absence of grace. But it’s not a “nature” distinct from human nature.

WHY does your chosen religion baptize infants?

1,279 posted on 01/28/2015 4:32:53 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Heart-Rest
That has to be one of the most insolent, ignorant posts I've ever received.

I'm glad you typed 'received' instead of 'read'.

1,280 posted on 01/28/2015 4:33:38 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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