After the apostles died, was the gospel hopelessly lost until the Reformation?Posted on 01/24/2015 8:33:46 AM PST by RnMomof7
After the apostles died, was the gospel hopelessly lost until the Reformation?
That certainly seems to be a common assumption in some Protestant circles today. Thankfully, it is a false assumption.
I’m not entirely sure where that misconception started. But one thing I do know: it did not come from the Protestant Reformers.
The Reformers themselves (including Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and others) were convinced that their position was not only biblical, but also historical. In other words, they contended that both the apostles and the church fathers would have agreed with them on the heart of the gospel.
For example, the second-generation Lutheran reformer, Martin Chemnitz (1522-1586), wrote a treatise on justification in which he defended the Protestant position by extensively using the church fathers. And John Calvin (1509-1564), in his Institutes, similarly claimed that he could easily debunk his Roman Catholic opponents using nothing but patristic sources. Here’s what he wrote:
If the contest were to be determined by patristic authority, the tide of victory — to put it very modestly —would turn to our side. Now, these fathers have written many wise and excellent things. . . . [Yet] the good things that these fathers have written they [the Roman Catholics] either do not notice, or misrepresent or pervert. . . . But we do not despise them [the church fathers]; in fact, if it were to our present purpose, I could with no trouble at all prove that the greater part of what we are saying today meets their approval.
Source: John Calvin, “Prefatory Address to King Francis I of France,” The Institutes of the Christian Religion, Section 4.
How could the Reformers be so confident that their understanding of the gospel was consistent with the teachings of the ancient church? Or perhaps more to the point: What did the early church fathers have to say about the gospel of grace?
Here is an admittedly brief collection of 30 patristic quotes, centering on the reality that justification is by grace alone through faith alone. Many more could be provided. But I think you’ll be encouraged by this survey look at the gospel according to the church fathers.
(Even if you don’t read every quote, just take a moment to consider the fact that, long before Luther, the leaders of the ancient church were clearly proclaiming the gospel of grace through faith in Christ.)
1. Clement of Rome (30-100): “And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.”
Source: Clement, First Epistle to the Corinthians, 32.4.
2. Epistle to Diognetus (second century): “He gave His own Son as a ransom for us, the holy One for transgressors, the blameless One for the wicked, the righteous One for the unrighteous, the incorruptible One for the corruptible, the immortal One for them that are mortal. For what other thing was capable of covering our sins than His righteousness? By what other one was it possible that we, the wicked and ungodly, could be justified, than by the only Son of God? O sweet exchange! O unsearchable operation! O benefits surpassing all expectation! That the wickedness of many should be hid in a single righteous One, and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors!”
Source: The Epistle to Diognetus, 9.2-5.
3. Justin Martyr (100-165) speaks of “those who repented, and who no longer were purified by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of an heifer, or by the offerings of fine flour, but by faith through the blood of Christ, and through His death.”
Source: Justin, Dialogue with Trypho, 13.
4. Origen (185-254): “For God is just, and therefore he could not justify the unjust. Therefore he required the intervention of a propitiator, so that by having faith in Him those who could not be justified by their own works might be justified.”
Source: Origen, Commentary on Romans, 2.112.
5. Origen (again): “A man is justified by faith. The works of the law can make no contribution to this. Where there is no faith which might justify the believer, even if there are works of the law these are not based on the foundation of faith. Even if they are good in themselves they cannot justify the one who does them, because faith is lacking, and faith is the mark of those who are justified by God.”
Source: Origen, Commentary on Romans, 2.136.
6. Hilary of Poitiers (300-368): “Wages cannot be considered as a gift, because they are due to work, but God has given free grace to all men by the justification of faith.”
Source: Hilary, Commentary on Matthew (on Matt. 20:7)
7. Hilary of Poitiers (again): “It disturbed the scribes that sin was forgiven by a man (for they considered that Jesus Christ was only a man) and that sin was forgiven by Him whereas the Law was not able to absolve it, since faith alone justifies.”
Source: Hilary, Commentary on Matthew (on Matt. 9:3)
8. Didymus the Blind (c. 313-398) “A person is saved by grace, not by works but by faith. There should be no doubt but that faith saves and then lives by doing its own works, so that the works which are added to salvation by faith are not those of the law but a different kind of thing altogether.”[31]
Source: Didymus the Blind. Commentary on James, 2:26b.
9. Basil of Caesarea (329-379): “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord, that Christ has been made by God for us righteousness, wisdom, justification, redemption. This is perfect and pure boasting in God, when one is not proud on account of his own righteousness but knows that he is indeed unworthy of the true righteousness and is justified solely by faith in Christ.”
Source: Basil, Homily on Humility, 20.3.
10. Jerome (347–420): “We are saved by grace rather than works, for we can give God nothing in return for what he has bestowed on us.”
Source: Jerome, Epistle to the Ephesians, 1.2.1.
11. John Chrysostom (349-407): “For Scripture says that faith has saved us. Put better: Since God willed it, faith has saved us. Now in what case, tell me, does faith save without itself doing anything at all? Faith’s workings themselves are a gift of God, lest anyone should boast. What then is Paul saying? Not that God has forbidden works but that he has forbidden us to be justified by works. No one, Paul says, is justified by works, precisely in order that the grace and benevolence of God may become apparent.”
Source: John Chrysostom, Homilies on Ephesians, 4.2.9.
12. John Chrysostom (again): “But what is the ‘law of faith?’ It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God’s power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only.”
Source: John Chrysostom, Homilies on Romans, 7.27.
13. John Chrysostom (again): “God allowed his Son to suffer as if a condemned sinner, so that we might be delivered from the penalty of our sins. This is God’s righteousness, that we are not justified by works (for then they would have to be perfect, which is impossible), but by grace, in which case all our sin is removed.”
Source: John Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistles of Paul to the Corinthians, 11.5.
14. John Chrysostom (again): “Everywhere he puts the Gentiles upon a thorough equality. ‘And put no difference between us and them, having purified their hearts by faith.’ (v. 9.) From faith alone, he says, they obtained the same gifts. This is also meant as a lesson to those (objectors); this is able to teach even them that faith only is needed, not works nor circumcision.”
Source: John Chrysostom, Homilies on Acts, 32 (regarding Acts 15:1)
15. John Chrysostom (again): “What then was it that was thought incredible? That those who were enemies, and sinners, neither justified by the law, nor by works, should immediately through faith alone be advanced to the highest favor. Upon this head accordingly Paul has discoursed at length in his Epistle to the Romans, and here again at length. “This is a faithful saying,” he says, “and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.”
Source: John Chrysostom, Homilies on 1 Timothy, 4.1.
16. John Chrysostom (again): “”For it is most of all apparent among the Gentiles, as he also says elsewhere, ‘And that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy.’ (Romans 15:9.) For the great glory of this mystery is apparent among others also, but much more among these. For, on a sudden, to have brought men more senseless than stones to the dignity of Angels, simply through bare words, and faith alone, without any laboriousness, is indeed glory and riches of mystery: just as if one were to take a dog, quite consumed with hunger and the mange, foul, and loathsome to see, and not so much as able to move, but lying cast out, and make him all at once into a man, and to display him upon the royal throne.”
Source: John Chrysostom, Homilies on Colossians, 5.2.
17. John Chrysostom (again): “Now since the Jews kept turning over and over the fact, that the Patriarch, and friend of God, was the first to receive circumcision, he wishes to show, that it was by faith that he too was justified. And this was quite a vantage ground to insist upon. For a person who had no works, to be justified by faith, was nothing unlikely. But for a person richly adorned with good deeds, not to be made just from hence, but from faith, this is the thing to cause wonder, and to set the power of faith in a strong light.”
Source: John Chrysostom, Homilies on Romans, 8.1.
18. Augustine (354-430): “If Abraham was not justified by works, how was he justified? The apostle goes on to tell us how: What does scripture say? (that is, about how Abraham was justified). Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness (Rom. 4:3; Gen. 15:6). Abraham, then, was justified by faith. Paul and James do not contradict each other: good works follow justification.”
Source: Augustine, Exposition 2 of Psalm 31, 2-4.
19. Augustine (again): “When someone believes in him who justifies the impious, that faith is reckoned as justice to the believer, as David too declares that person blessed whom God has accepted and endowed with righteousness, independently of any righteous actions (Rom 4:5-6). What righteousness is this? The righteousness of faith, preceded by no good works, but with good works as its consequence.”
Source: Augustine, Exposition 2 of Psalm 31, 6-7.
20. Ambrosiaster (fourth century): “God has decreed that a person who believes in Christ can be saved without works. By faith alone he receives the forgiveness of sins.”
Source: Ambrosiaster, Commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:4.
21. Ambrosiaster (again): “They are justified freely because they have not done anything nor given anything in return, but by faith alone they have been made holy by the gift of God.”
Source: Ambrosiaster, Commentary on Romans 3:24.
22. Ambrosiaster (again): “Paul tells those who live under the law that they have no reason to boast basing themselves on the law and claiming to be of the race of Abraham, seeing that no one is justified before God except by faith.”
Source: Ambrosiaster, Commentary on Romans 3:27.
23. Ambrosiaster (again): “God gave what he promised in order to be revealed as righteous. For he had promised that he would justify those who believe in Christ, as he says in Habakkuk: ‘The righteous will live by faith in me’ (Hab. 2:4). Whoever has faith in God and Christ is righteous.”
Source: Ambrosiaster, Commentary on Paul’s Epistles; CSEL 81 ad loc.
24. Marius Victorinus (fourth century): “The fact that you Ephesians are saved is not something that comes from yourselves. It is the gift of God. It is not from your works, but it is God’s grace and God’s gift, not from anything you have deserved. … We did not receive things by our own merit but by the grace and goodness of God.”
Source: Marius Victorinus, Epistle to the Ephesians, 1.2.9.
25. Prosper of Aquitaine (390–455): “And just as there are no crimes so detestable that they can prevent the gift of grace, so too there can be no works so eminent that they are owed in condign [deserved] judgment that which is given freely. Would it not be a debasement of redemption in Christ’s blood, and would not God’s mercy be made secondary to human works, if justification, which is through grace, were owed in view of preceding merits, so that it were not the gift of a Donor, but the wages of a laborer?”
Source: Prosper of Acquitaine, Call of All Nations, 1.17
26. Theodoret of Cyrus (393–457): “The Lord Christ is both God and the mercy seat, both the priest and the lamb, and he performed the work of our salvation by his blood, demanding only faith from us.”
Source: Theodoret of Cyrus, Interpretation of the Letter to the Romans; PG 82 ad loc.
27. Theodoret of Cyrus (again): “All we bring to grace is our faith. But even in this faith, divine grace itself has become our enabler. For [Paul] adds, ‘And this is not of yourselves but it is a gift of God; not of works, lest anyone should boast’ (Eph. 2:8–9). It is not of our own accord that we have believed, but we have come to belief after having been called; and even when we had come to believe, He did not require of us purity of life, but approving mere faith, God bestowed on us forgiveness of sins”
Source: Theodoret of Cyrus, Interpretation of the Fourteen Epistles of Paul; FEF 3:248–49, sec. 2163.
28. Cyril of Alexandria (412-444): “For we are justified by faith, not by works of the law, as Scripture says. By faith in whom, then, are we justified? Is it not in Him who suffered death according to the flesh for our sake? Is it not in one Lord Jesus Christ?”
Source: Cyril of Alexandria, Against Nestorius, 3.62
29. Fulgentius (462–533): “The blessed Paul argues that we are saved by faith, which he declares to be not from us but a gift from God. Thus there cannot possibly be true salvation where there is no true faith, and, since this faith is divinely enabled, it is without doubt bestowed by his free generosity. Where there is true belief through true faith, true salvation certainly accompanies it. Anyone who departs from true faith will not possess the grace of true salvation.”
Source: Fulgentius, On the Incarnation, 1; CCL 91:313.
30. Bede (673-735): “Although the apostle Paul preached that we are justified by faith without works, those who understand by this that it does not matter whether they live evil lives or do wicked and terrible things, as long as they believe in Christ, because salvation is through faith, have made a great mistake. James here expounds how Paul’s words ought to be understood. This is why he uses the example of Abraham, whom Paul also used as an example of faith, to show that the patriarch also performed good works in the light of his faith. It is therefore wrong to interpret Paul in such a way as to suggest that it did not matter whether Abraham put his faith into practice or not. What Paul meant was that no one obtains the gift of justification on the basis of merits derived from works performed beforehand, because the gift of justification comes only from faith.”
Source: Cited from the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture (ed. Gerald Bray), NT, vol. 11, p. 31.
But Augustine is not teaching that the Sacrament IS what it represents. He says that the reality and the representation are separate things:
“What you can see passes away, but the invisible reality signified does not pass away, but remains. Look, it’s received, it’s eaten, it’s consumed. Is the body of Christ consumed, is the Church of Christ consumed, are the members of Christ consumed? Perish the thought! Here they are being purified, there they will be crowned with the victor’s laurels. So what is signified will remain eternally, although the thing that signifies it seems to pass away. So receive the sacrament in such a way that you think about yourselves, that you retain unity in your hearts, that you always fix your hearts up above. Don’t let your hope be placed on earth, but in heaven. Let your faith be firm in God, let it be acceptable to God. Because what you don’t see now, but believe, you are going to see there, where you will have joy without end.” (Augustine, Ser. 227)
The communion between Christ and the Church (for Augustine also teaches that the bread and the wine is our flesh and blood as well) in the eucharist is for us to "fix our hearts above," on that invisible reality that transcends the physical, which is enjoyed through faith alone, although, "carnally," a person might press the sacrament to their teeth and eat it. Again and again, Augustine states that spiritually, Christ is eaten without teeth and stomach.
“Catholics just do not have a grounding to understand scripture..”
I see Protestant anti-Catholics post ridiculous comments like that and I have to ask, “Do these Protestant anti-Catholics have any self-awareness at all?” There are Catholics here who know a great deal about scripture. I know Catholics who have a profound grounding in scripture and clearly know more about it than any Protestant Freeper I’ve ever seen post here. Then there are the former Protestant ministers I know - I have at least five or six friends who were Protestant ministers before becoming Catholics. Yet you would have to say - because of the ridiculous comment you just made - that they “just do not have a grounding to understand scripture”.
“could you post the authoritative infallible meaning of the book of James written by the magistrum”
Could you post the correct word? There’s no “magistrum”. It’s Magisterium. And you want US to take comments from anti-Catholics about “Catholics just...not hav[ing] a grounding to understand” anything seriously ?
“Yep. I think He is STILL showing how useless man made laws are.”
And today it seems He also showed how useless it is to sit in Protestant churches for 45 years if someone doesn’t read much.
Well, I am not claiming Augustine believes it is "just" a symbol. What I mean is, he believes it is both a symbol of a reality and a real spiritual communion between Christ and His Church, though not to be confused with that spiritual eating of Christ which is accomplished through faith. In John 6, Augustine is not actually there speaking of the Eucharist in any way, but explaining that Christ is eaten through faith. The eucharist only comes up later, and this, differentiated from the spiritual eating of Christ.
If we turn specifically to Augustine's theology on the eucharist, without any looking to his theology of faith, Augustine here considers the eucharist a thing that ought to bring to our minds a tender remembrance of Christ and also of ourselves for the sake of unity:
“What you can see passes away, but the invisible reality signified does not pass away, but remains. Look, it’s received, it’s eaten, it’s consumed. Is the body of Christ consumed, is the Church of Christ consumed, are the members of Christ consumed? Perish the thought! Here they are being purified, there they will be crowned with the victor’s laurels. So what is signified will remain eternally, although the thing that signifies it seems to pass away. So receive the sacrament in such a way that you think about yourselves, that you retain unity in your hearts, that you always fix your hearts up above. Don’t let your hope be placed on earth, but in heaven. Let your faith be firm in God, let it be acceptable to God. Because what you don’t see now, but believe, you are going to see there, where you will have joy without end.” (Augustine, Ser. 227)
Though when Augustine speaks in this way, he does not claim it is a remembrance that has no spiritual component, but rather he holds that the whole church is communing together when enjoying the Eucharist, as that is exactly what the eucharist is, the entire church:
“How can bread be his body? And the cup, or what the cup contains, how can it be his blood? The reason these things, brothers and sisters, are called sacraments is that in them one thing is seen, another is to be understood. What can be seen has a bodily appearance, what is to be understood provides spiritual fruit. So if it’s you that are the body of Christ and its members, it’s the mystery meaning you that has been placed on the Lord’s table; what you receive is the mystery that means you.” (Augustine, Sermon 272)
“I haven’t forgotten my promise. I had promised those of you who have just been baptized a sermon to explain the sacrament of the Lord’s table, which you can see right now, and which you shared in last night. You ought to know what you have received, what you are about to receive, what you ought to receive every day. That bread which you can see on the altar, sanctified by the word of God, is the body of Christ. That cup, or rather what the cup contains, sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ. It was by means of these things that the Lord Christ wished to present us with his body and blood, which he shed for our sake for the forgiveness of sins. If you receive them well, you are yourselves what you receive. You see, the apostle says, We, being many, are one loaf, one body (1 Cor 10:17). That’s how he explained the sacrament of the Lord’s table; one loaf, one body, is what we all are, many though we be.” (Augustine, Sermon 227)
The mystery of the eucharist is the church itself, communing together spiritually with Christ in the Lord's Supper, where ever we are. Though this is enjoyed only by those who have first been purified by faith.
If they did then why do we have all the different views of what it is? Different men decided to make it what he and his followers wanted to hear so in my humble opinion, that is why there are so many views.
FourtySeven; All,
Just to let you know, G_P_H has cut and pasted from someone’s blog without attribution yet again.
This section on Fr. Bartunek is taken from https://boldandresolute.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/augustine-transubstantiation/
He even cut and pasted the bad link that was included in the original: http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/08/15/258-eating-right-jn-652-59#ixzz2pZMDVk3c
I also should point out that he has used the same St. Augustine quote in the past WITHOUT cutting and pasting the Bartunek comment (without attribution) from someone’s blof (right here at FR no less): http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3017912/replies?c=135
And has done it BEFORE in the wrong way too: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3121075/replies?c=17
LOL. I read enough, to know I do not fall for the made laws of Romanism. I was a papist at one time, and thank God I was released from the bondage of Rome and sacerdotalism. If you want to stay in it, that’s on you. I think there is a catholic, somewhere in the world, cringing that a protestant is getting away with something he thinks he can’t, and it grates on their nerves. I have no intention of swimming the Tiber. Unfortunately, we might find out for sure on THAT day won’t we? I have NO problem taking the risk. See you at the pearly gates.
And you’re still wrong. Honestly, to claim to know something because you happen to be in it for 45 years and then to be so easily shown you were completely wrong on that point. Wow, what’s that like? I’ve never had that happen so I thought you could tell me what it felt like to find out you were wrong as a Protestant for 45 years. Do tell.
Alright well fine. Then I don't understand how anyone can claim this is necessarily destructive to the Catholic Church. Again, no one claims he taught Transubstantiation. But at the same time, he clearly taught there was a reality to the Eucharist.
LOL, whatever. See you at the pearly gates.
Interesting, thanks.
Well regardless, whoever says these things originally, it seems like so much twisting around to avoid the plain reality of St. Augustine’s teachings. Apparently this all really comes from Calvin’s opinions of Augustine’s teachings, so again, what authority does he have to teach on such matters? (rhetorical question there)
Anyway, I’m done with this “The Eucharist really is Christ, but it’s really not” stuff. I’ll leave it to the faithful and objective lurker to judge who has, at least, the less complicated view of St. Augustine’s beliefs.
I am the author of Bold and Resolute, though I'm not sure if I intend to use that blog (I don't know if I have the time for it). If you want, I can make a post on there to prove it.
This would actually support my cause, because instead of showing that Abraham was righteous, you make him a sinner. You also did not deal with your major impediment: that if we are saved by our merits or works, it is not by grace, because grace is not provided as debt for labor provided or for the merits of an individual. It is given gratuitously.
All of this disproves your claim that we are justified by our merits, partly out of your own mouth too.
As for predestination and our sins. Our good works are all the product of God working within us, as the scripture teaches "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Php 2:13). The power to sin, on the other hand, comes from our flesh only, though the outcome of this sin, or when it should occur, is under the control of God's providence, so that nothing can happen unless it may also be turned into good according to God's unfathomed purpose. For example, the sin of the brothers to sell Joseph into slavery, is done by them for evil purposes, but is meant by God for His good purposes:
Gen_50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
Thus God rules even over our evil acts, so that we cannot sin as we would, nor sin in such a way that it is outside of God's providence, but only when it fulfills His will and allows Him to make use of that evil thing for some good purpose.
As for why the Elect still sin-- it's because we are not robots, but exist in this world with a flesh that wars against our spiritual mind. But if sin has dominion over us, there is no conflict between the flesh and mind, but rather both are unified in their obedience to sin. This is the meaning of your verse: "“But God be thanked, that ye WERE the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.”
This is true for all Christians, we "were" the servants of sin, as now, with our mind, we worship God, although we war with the flesh which very often wins the contest, unfortunately. This is what Paul is teaching in Romans 7:
"For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." (Rom 7:22-25)
Note that Paul calls himself a "wretched man". Thus if righteousness is required for salvation, and this righteousness is in our own person and not imputed to us by faith, then Paul is damned by his own words, because he is not righteous, but a sinning wretch.
I can guarantee you that the WORKS that Rom. 4:4 refers to is NOT Acts 2:38. For Paul is writing to those that have obeyed Acts 2:38, noting that in the beginning of the epistle he greets those in Rome as ‘saints’. He reminds them in places like Rom. 6:17 about their conversion:
First, Paul himself is a saint of saints, and calls himself wretched, and therefore cannot be one for whom it is said he is in obedience in mind and body to God. But Paul is in obedience to God with his spiritual mind, though his body, like our own, often fails him. Let's look at Acts 2:38 now:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
First, this does not prove that salvation is by works, because to be saved by works requires perfection, which none of us can have. From the OP, quoting Chrysostom:
“God allowed his Son to suffer as if a condemned sinner, so that we might be delivered from the penalty of our sins. This is God’s righteousness, that we are not justified by works (for then they would have to be perfect, which is impossible), but by grace, in which case all our sin is removed.”
Secondly, this does not prove that salvation is through works, because the only way anyone will want to repent and be baptized is through the Holy Ghost, which Paul says precedes repentance and baptism:
1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
And this is clear also in Acts according to Luke:
Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
This mercy is explicitly without any notice of man's merits, whether foreseen or possible, but entirely on the mercy of God alone. From Augustine's reading of Romans chapter 9:
“And, moreover, who will be so foolish and blasphemous as to say that God cannot change the evil wills of men, whichever, whenever, and wheresoever He chooses, and direct them to what is good? But when He does this He does it of mercy; when He does it not, it is of justice that He does it not for “He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens.” And when the apostle said this, he was illustrating the grace of God, in connection with which he had just spoken of the twins in the womb of Rebecca, who “being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calls, it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.” And in reference to this matter he quotes another prophetic testimony: “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” But perceiving how what he had said might affect those who could not penetrate by their understanding the depth of this grace: “What shall we say then?” he says: “Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.” For it seems unjust that, in the absence of any merit or demerit, from good or evil works, God should love the one and hate the other. Now, if the apostle had wished us to understand that there were future good works of the one, and evil works of the other, which of course God foreknew, he would never have said, not of works, but, of future works, and in that way would have solved the difficulty, or rather there would then have been no difficulty to solve. As it is, however, after answering, God forbid; that is, God forbid that there should be unrighteousness with God; he goes on to prove that there is no unrighteousness in God’s doing this, and says: “For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” “ (Augustine, The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, Chapter 98. Predestination to Eternal Life is Wholly of God’s Free Grace.)
Now whoever God has mercy on is delivered into salvation absolutely. Though a person who repents and is baptized obeys the LORD, it is only because God has had mercy on him so that he should repent of his sins and live a holy life. It does not say in this verse that this holy life earns him salvation. It is a command, of course, and necessary for our salvation in the sense that God requires of us a heart turned from sin to enter heaven, but this is created in us by God, which is done gratuitously. Nor does having repentance only fulfill the law, because the law requires perfection, which none of us, not even Paul, can possess.
Again, fine. What you just said (bolded by me) is again, the definition of a "sacrament": Something that symbolizes and is really what it symbolizes. But consider this (regarding the remainder of what I quoted above not in bold), no one in the Catholic Church says we "eat" or "consume" or in any way, with our jaws and teeth "digest" the Grace of God in Communion.
What we do believe is pretty much what St. Augustine teaches on THAT subject, to whit, that we RECEIVE the Grace of God spiritually (the "spiritual eating of Christ" as you call it), through the Eucharist (which is the Body of Christ), but it's not our teeth and jaws that somehow "extract" this Grace, but rather it's mysteriously given to us, to our souls. It is thus not "consumed" (as St. Augustine said). And of course this Grace isn't destroyed by digestion with teeth and jaws.
This (what I just wrote above) doesn't contradict anything you have quoted St. Augustine saying. In fact, it's reinforced by all the quotes you've posted tonight. And it's all Catholic teaching.
This is not possible for Augustine, because you say "through" the eating of the Eucharist. But Augustine says that we eat Christ without eating the Eucharist, we "eat" Christ "already," even before readying teeth and stomach. Otherwise Augustine would have said, "at the same time" or "through," instead of "already" at the moment of faith.
“I am the author of Bold and Resolute, though I’m not sure if I intend to use that blog (I don’t know if I have the time for it). If you want, I can make a post on there to prove it.”
No, I believe you.
LOL Keep looking to your graven images!
>>I supposed you have to just keep making stuff up about witchcraft because you can’t post a logical rejoinder.<<
Go burn some fish hearts and smear the liver on your eyes.
Betcha that went right over their heads.
Haha ok man, so we are going to keep going around in circles regarding "'eat' Christ 'already' even before readying teeth and stomach"? No thanks.
Again, YES we receive Christ in the Eucharist through faith, which is also why Augustine says that those who DON'T believe eat their own judgment in the Eucharist! (another Catholic teaching!) Here's something to chew on (no pun intended): how can someone who has no faith "eat judgment upon themselves", as Augustine says, if the Eucharist itself is of no effect?
Perhaps ask the question...why did so many believe her and fear her?
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