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To: annalex; metmom; boatbums; daniel1212; CynicalBear

>>Precisely. That means she is the God-giver or if you prefer God-bearer. No one is making her a “demi-god”, by the way.<<

I’d be careful with the “God-giver” connotation. Blessed Mary was clearly called “mother of Jesus” in the NT. That is why many Protestants and Evangelicals stop right there and especially why most Messianic Jews stop right there. For God’s Law specifically says “that ye turn not aside therefrom to the right hand or to the left;”. The subject of the quote came from Joshua 23:6 where YHWH tells him not to stray from His direct commands. The early Jewish Christians knew this and inspired by the Holy Spirit gave us what we know of Mary. We are to assume no more no less.

I know some Roman Catholics see Protestants and Evangelicals as being disrespectful of Blessed Mary mother of Jesus. But we are not. We do respect and look to Mary as an example of faith a Christian should emulate as there are other numerous examples of godly lives to examine. But we do so from the revealed Word of God.

An example of straying to the left or right is when Israel, after witnessing wonderous miracles and deliverance from God, decided Moses was dead as he entered the presence of God on Sinai. Not long after they crafted a golden idol. They thought they were honoring God as they thought Moses was dead. Even high priest Aaron joined in.

God said He is a jealous God. He is to receive all the adoration, prayers, worship and glory. Sinai is evidence of such.

Back to “God-giver.” I think even a casual look at the early church fathers puts a hold on this title. For if you examine their writings on the Logos begotten not made I think puts this title of giver of God as not an orthodox belief. Even for the post apostolic age.


877 posted on 12/15/2014 9:52:35 PM PST by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: redleghunter

An example of straying to the left or right is when Israel, after witnessing wonderous miracles and deliverance from God, decided Moses was dead as he entered the presence of God on Sinai. Not long after they crafted a golden idol. They thought they were honoring God as they thought Moses was dead.

But the golden calf was not a salvific instrument as Mary was, but which RCs think of far "above what is written." (cf. 1Cor. 4:6)

A better example is that of the bronze serpent in Num. 21, which the chastised Israelites were to look upon, it being a type of Christ, "that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."

However, true to form and the proclivity of man seen in the unScriptural "hyperdulia" of the Mary of Catholicism, they ended up burning incense to this salvific instrument, which is never to be done to any created being:

He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan. (2 Kings 18:4)

Likewise did pagans do to the only Queen of Heaven in Scripture:

But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. (Jeremiah 44:17)

Likewise does Rome do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of her own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto Mary, among many other things .

Incense represents and prayerful devotion, and nowhere does any believer ever pray to anyone else in Heaven but the Lord. The fact that souls prayed to the Lord Jesus (1Cor. 1:2) testifies to His deity, and who is the only heavenly intercessor btwn God the Father and man. (1Tim. 2:5)

Incense represents and prayerful devotion, and nowhere does any believer ever pray to anyone else in Heaven but the Lord. The Lord's own instructions on how to pray teach us to address the Father, not "our Mother" but "our Father," to whom also the Spirit within us cries, "Abba, Father," (Gal. 4:6) not "Mama, Mother."

It was before God the Father that Paul said he knelt and prayed to, (Eph. 3:14) and not Mary the demigoddess.

But Rome will do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of her own mouth, to her own damnation.

972 posted on 12/16/2014 6:18:05 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: redleghunter; metmom; boatbums; daniel1212; CynicalBear
Theotokos

I’d be careful with the “God-giver” connotation.

That is what mothers do: they give children to the world. When the Cchild is divine, that is Whom Mary gave. This is not denying the fact that Jesus pre-existed Mary, if that is what you are worried about.

Besides, I am not telling you whom to venerate and how; you guys are. If you want to "be careful", well, I am not your pastor.

1,021 posted on 12/16/2014 7:53:17 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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