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Another strawman Catholic-bashing thread, hidden as specious argumentation.

The thread opens with: "The reason for this article is to determine.....", yet there is no link to any article. This is a vanity post with only one objective, to attack Catholics. It is replete with a total misunderstanding of the term "worship"; hence the ignorant attack.

Catholics do not worship anyone but God. The term "worship" was used in the same way in the Bible that it used to be used in English. It could cover both the adoration given to God alone and the honor that is to be shown to certain human beings. In Hebrew, the term for worship is shakhah. It is appropriately used for humans in a large number of passages.

In Genesis 49:2-27, Jacob pronounced a prophetic blessing on his sons, and concerning Judah he stated: "Judah, your brothers shall praise you; your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; your father’s sons shall worship [shakhah] you (49:8)." And in Exodus 18:7, Moses honored his father-in-law, Jethro: "Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, and worshiped [shakhah] him and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare, and went into the tent."

Yet none of these passages were discussing the worship of adoration, the kind of worship given to God.

People who do not know better sometimes say that Catholics worship statues. Not only is this untrue, it is even untrue that Catholics honor statues. After all, a statue is nothing but a carved block of marble or a chunk of plaster, and no one gives honor to marble yet unquarried or to plaster still in the mixing bowl.

The fact that someone kneels before a statue to pray does not mean that he is praying to the statue, just as the fact that someone kneels with a Bible in his hands to pray does not mean that he is worshiping the Bible. Statues or paintings or other artistic devices are used to recall to the mind the person or thing depicted. Just as it is easier to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it is easier to recall the lives of the saints by looking at representations of them.

The use of statues and icons for liturgical purposes (as opposed to idols) also had a place in the Old Testament. In Exodus 25:18–20, God commanded: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be."

In Numbers 21:8–9, he told Moses: "‘Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.’ So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live." This shows the actual ceremonial use of a statue (looking to it) in order to receive a blessing from God (healing from snakebite). In John 3:14, Jesus tells us that he himself is what the bronze serpent represented, so it was a symbolic representation of Jesus. There was no problem with this statue—God had commanded it to be made—so long as people did not worship it. When they did, the righteous king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4). This clearly shows the difference between the proper religious use of statues and idolatry.

When the time came to build the Temple in Jerusalem, God inspired David’s plans for it, which included "his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing from the hand of the Lord concerning it, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19).

In obedience to this divinely inspired plan, Solomon built two gigantic, golden statues of cherubim: "In the most holy place he made two cherubim of wood and overlaid them with gold. The wings of the cherubim together extended twenty cubits: one wing of the one, of five cubits, touched the wall of the house, and its other wing, of five cubits, touched the wing of the other cherub; and of this cherub, one wing, of five cubits, touched the wall of the house, and the other wing, also of five cubits, was joined to the wing of the first cherub. The wings of these cherubim extended twenty cubits; the cherubim stood on their feet, facing the nave. And he made the veil of blue and purple and crimson fabrics and fine linen, and worked cherubim on it" (2 Chr. 3:10–14).

Bottom line, honoring Mary and/or the saints who are alive, is perfectly biblical. Jesus Christ is the one Mediator of man and God the Father, the only Person whose Blood saves us; but the most effective and beautiful way to Jesus is through the imitation of Mary and beseeching her to pray for us.

From "Why I Am a Catholic" -- What I Saw In Bethlehem Yesterday (A Photo Essay)

The Church of the Annunciation

we went to The Shepherd’s Field afterwards and saw the grotto in which the shepherds rested when they were not on watch.

Inside the cave, pilgrims venerated the site where the Christ, the one who came into the world, made his literal advent.

Awed Silence

The church where Jesus’s cousin, the greatest of all of those born of women, arrived six months before He did.

There was no crowd when we paid homage to St. John the Baptist. Nevertheless, he is praying for us all now. Thanks be to God.

All pictures and comments courtesy of Frank Weathers at Why I Am Catholic.

Another strawman Catholic-bashing thread, hidden as specious argumentation.

Catholics sure have problems with Free Speech on Free Republic. There have been at least three calls to have this discussion pulled. Amazing.

In the OT passages you cite the authors did use the word in different contexts. When dealing with people they would translate the word as bowed down. When dealing with God they would translate as worshipped

In the NT passages involving Peter and John it was clearly understood what was happening was worship. This was not "adoration".

We should also note in these passages involving the Cherubim, the bronze serpent and others such as these were specific instructions from God delivered for a specific purpose.

He has never given us any such instructions regarding statues of Mary.

The catholic church has gone way beyond its claimed "adoration" of Mary in its pronouncements regarding Mary and this one of the reasons why Christians charge catholics with worshipping Mary. It is why we aren't to have graven images because the temptation to turn to them instead of Christ is too great.

We have this from Pope Leo XIII as an example. Please note the highlighted words.

We constantly seek for help from Heaven - the sole means of effecting anything - that our labours and our care may obtain their wished for object. We deem that there could be no surer and more efficacious means to this end than by religion and piety to obtain the favour of the great Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, the guardian of our peace and the minister to us of heavenly grace, who is placed on the highest summit of power and glory in Heaven, in order that she may bestow the help of her patronage on men who through so many labours and dangers are striving to reach that eternal city. …..showing that the Catholic Church has always, and with justice, put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God. SUPREMI APOSTOLATUS OFFICIO ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON DEVOTION OF THE ROSARY

Notice the attributes given to Mary.

great Virgin

guardian of our peace

minister to us of heavenly grace

placed on the highest summit of power and glory in Heaven

her patronage

catholic church has always...put ALL HER HOPE AND TRUST IN THE MOTHER OF GOD

Sure sounds like catholics have gone beyond adoration based on what Pope Leo XIII has noted here.

Mary has also been assigned the following by the catholic church:

Co-redemtrix

Queen of Heaven

Queen of the Universe

Advocate

Helper

Benefactress

Mediatrix

Mary Queen of the Apostles

Mother of the Church

Mother of Divine Grace

Refuge of Sinners

Mother most pure

Mother most chaste

Queen of Angels

Queen of Patriarchs

Queen of all Saints

Queen of Martyrs

Queen of Confessors

Queen of Peace Most taken from this website http://www.vatican.va/special/rosary/documents/litanie-lauretane_en.html

That's a pretty lengthy list for just adoration.

We could also discuss to whom we are to pray to, but that's another topic for another night.

Bottom line....catholics have gone way beyond adoration and into worship regarding Mary.