Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
As was your post in reply to it.
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Loaded sarcastic questions such as that one will not go well with your posting privileges
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Post 2118
The LORD Jesus Christ provided neither chapter headings (provided by a Catholic), nor verse numbers (another Catholic who became a Protestant). I'm not bound by your holy tradition, whatever faith group it is. I'm more interested, as is the LORD, in whether we obey the words rather than catalogue them by chapter and verse. Word of the day, backbiting.
“Loaded sarcastic questions such as that one will not go well with your posting privileges”
Do you know why I asked it?
I believe in one holy catholic apostolic church.
12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
It doesn’t matter.
Do you know why you have to log in to post again?
Beyond that, I expounded upon an important point and something of actual substance (which I do not believe vet addressed without bringing up 'denomination' again).
I refuse to answer for several reasons, one being that I find it an illegitimate question. Another, it is divisive on its face.
If someone behaved this way at work for 2 days, it would be called harassment. It reminds me of the "tolerant" liberals who, when they don't like your answer, claim you didn't answer, bully, name-call, or attempt to cause shame and when that doesn't work, appeal to authority (i.e., the boss, the moderator, or the liberals in black robes who think they're judges) to force their will upon you.
Well, I'm sorry, but firstly, I don't see that behavior is the Spirit of Christ and secondly, its answer remains irrelevant toward any productive discussion of the Word of God.
No answer IS an answer.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Christ never wanted His believers to be religious. That is man’s invention. He makes things simple, humans do not.
AMEN!
The better to bash you with, my dear.
OK
Truly, we cannot know what another person is thinking. But God knows.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. - I Cor 2:11-13
And based on the many prayers easily found in a google search addressed to Mary, it's clear that many of them DO serve her.
One such example.....
http://www.marypages.com/PrayerstoMary.htm
My Queen, My Mother, I offer myself entirely to thee. And to show my devotion to thee, I offer thee this day, my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve.
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as thy property and possession. Amen.
I'd make a great prayer to GOD.
To Mary, not so much.
Nobody can say that that's not serving her, or worshiping her for that matter.
The Scriptures say Mary was "highly favored" (obviously, as she was chosen for this work: to be the instrument through which the Messiah would be born). But those who believe in Christ and accept Him as Savior are ALSO chosen, and James exhorts us to also, perform good works, not as a condition of Salvation, but so that others may come to know Him, through us. We are instruments of God's hands, feet, tongues, and body until Christ's return.
At Christ's death, He did not elevate Mary to any position; He only asked that John the Disciple care for her as he would his own mother. And that was an honorable thing to do.
We read in Matthew no devotion or prayer being uttered to His mother or that others should practice such:
Matthew 12:
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”As to idols and graven images, and the practice of worshipping or praying to them, these things have always been detestable to God. We have warnings as well as explanations against doing so replete in the Scriptures, including Exodus, Kings, Isaiah, and elsewhere in the Old Testament. As to those in the New Testament, Paul is troubled when he sees the idols and says, in part (Acts 17):48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
29 Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. 30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”Repent from what? Of sin? Yes. But I believe he was also referring to the practice of idol worshipping. The Jews had a lengthy history of this practice and were well acquainted with what happened to their ancestors who engaged in these pagan practices.
vlad, please cool it. I’ve been where you are and have done that and had to log-in to post.
It’s a VERY FRiendly way of saying...
Straighten up and fly right.
I remember lashing out at authority when I was being convicted of bad postings. Perhaps Someone Else is convicting you of something you really know is true. Is that possible?
“vlad, please cool it.”
I’m fine. I don’t need to “cool it”. I was never upset in the first place. I know how it goes and I’ve known that for years.
“I’ve been where you are and have done that and had to log-in to post.”
It doesn’t matter. It just proves my point.
“It’s a VERY FRiendly way of saying...Straighten up and fly right.”
That’s not the message no matter what words were posted.
“I remember lashing out at authority when I was being convicted of bad postings.”
If discussing someone’s posted words is making it personal, I can accept that even though that doesn’t really make sense to me. I don’t believe that this is what this is about. You don’t know what went on below the radar.
“Perhaps Someone Else is convicting you of something you really know is true. Is that possible?”
Not about what I posted. I probably am spending too much time here (something we might all be able to say). Spending time - a lot of time - with people who post things that are obviously false about you, Christ, the Faith, the Church, the Bible, doctrine, Church history, Church practice, canon law, the sacraments, purgatory, relics, Church art, literature, and the saints, can’t be good for any body. Spending time with people who will go further and resort to [I better not say it even though it was admitted] really can’t be good for any body.
And there is stands.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Revelation 12 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.
3 And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his head seven diadems:
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her a thousand two hundred sixty days.
7 And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels:
8 And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of the testimony, and they loved not their lives unto death.
12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you that dwell therein. Woe to the earth, and to the sea, because the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child:
14 And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman, water as it were a river; that he might cause her to be carried away by the river.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the river, which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
18 And he stood upon the sand of the sea.
Dang!
I do this!!
I'll have to remember to gives content clues in the future.
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