Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
None of the verses you posted say souls aren’t in Heaven.
“Perhaps your seeing-eye dog needs a seeing-eye human to guide him!”
Still no “till”.
Is this argument regarding every jot and til?
“There is a difference between questions asked because someone seeks an answer and someone who seeks an argument.”
I’m not the one in this thread you should be telling this to.
“There are honest questions, and there are dishonest questions.”
The latter kind come from Protestants.
“There are honest misunderstandings and intentional twisting of Scriptures to fit someone’s preferences.”
The latter is what Protestants do.
“There are those who desire to pluck partial sentences from Scripture, as opposed to looking at the entirety of what the Scriptures say on a topic, and from the perversion base their entire theology and self-righteous insistence on the perversion as being “truth.””
Protestants do that all the time.
“You seek the perversion and tp argue,”
What you’re doing now is officially called “mind reading” here at FR religion forum and is prohibited.
“and therefore I have no time for dishonest questions or intentional perversions”
What you’re doing now is officially called “mind reading” here at FR religion forum and is prohibited.
where I would otherwise take all day to answer honest questions and genuine misunderstandings. I have no patience for dishonesty.
“I know your only design to create arguments,”
What you’re doing now is officially called “mind reading” here at FR religion forum and is prohibited.
“and knew exactly where you were coning from after your second or third post.”
What you’re doing now is officially called “mind reading” here at FR religion forum and is prohibited.
“You are a dishonest questioner and willfully perverted in your insistence in perverting the intent of the Scriptures.”
What you’re doing now is officially called “mind reading” here at FR religion forum and is prohibited.
“Therefore, engaging in any topic of Scripture with you is like casting pearls before swine.”
You have said that now twice. Why do you keep doing that “casting pearls before swine” then?
“Period.”
Sure.
Your time might be better spent considering post #2135.
Only a suggestion; not reading your mind.
No, that view does not align with the scriptures. Instead I find Jews and Gentiles, men and women, masters and slaves, all built upon the Jewish Apostles and Prophets with Messiah Himself the chief cornerstone, comprising one holy catholic apostolic church. I assume you are familiar with all these passages as well as the KJV. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 27Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 30But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 1Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. 9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. 34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Discuss the issues all you like, but do not make it personal.
It’s difficult (for a few of us) to read that shade of blue lettering. Possible, but not easily or readily.
A more loving RCC might have listened to suggestions from his/her readers before now and ceased this throwing around of the Baby Blue Word of God.
A more-considerate RC, that is.
“It is trickery to try to get a poster to click on a video link with no indication of what the content is.”
No. You either click on it or not. There was no trickery. Here’s a link. Click on it or don’t. It’s your choice. There’s no trickery involved:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q251EywW__M
“Claiming a question can be “untrue” when it is just asking is absurd.”
No, you showed that your question was untrue by saying later that you wanted NOT AN ACTUAL ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION but something else. 1) You said you employed “trickery” and even much later apologized for doing it so that is beyond dispute. 2) You asked , “Without backup for your claims, you post a south park video??” That is the exact quote from you. If I simply responded to the “south park” reference, the appropriate response would have been “No” since it was not a South Park video. But you didn’t ask what the video was. You asked if it was a South Park video and you only asked that in relation to “Without backup for your claims…” which clearly made it look like you have viewed the video.
Remember, you said you employed “trickery”. There is no escaping your own words. You are trapped by them.
“I admitted I tricked you into doing what you should have done in the beginning, say what the video was about.”
So, in other words, rather than being an adult about the approach it is better to use trickery? Isn’t that what this means, “I admitted I tricked you into doing what you should have done in the beginning, say what the video was about.”
And, by the way, did I ever tell you what the video exactly was? No. So as a trick to find out what the video was it failed. Yet you have repeatedly said “I admitted I tricked you” so I have every reason to think the “trickery” was about something else.
“You tried to trick me, so I tricked you back.”
No. This is the second or third time you have made this false claim. I NEVER EVEN ONCE ATTEMPTED TO TRICK YOU. Is that clear enough for you? Do the caps help you see it? You write “I admitted I tricked you” but don’t you dare say that I tried to trick you because that is COMPLETELY FALSE.
I can’t stop you from making a completely false claim over and over again, but for you to actually use it as some excuse for what you have already admitted to (“I admitted I tricked you”) is ridiculous.
“As you can see in the last post to which I replied, God does not condemn me. Why do you?”
Condemning you? I post your own words to you. If you feel that’s condemning to you, then what does that say about those words and the actions that precipitated them?
“Doesn’t matter to me except for the comfort of your soul.”
Don’t worry, my soul is more than comforted by Christ and the Holy Spirit. But you keep digging your hole deeper and still come up with bizarre things such as “God does not condemn me. Why do you?”
“You know, admitting what a person does so they don’t have to carry it around.”
Yet you keep getting right back in that hole and digging and digging it deeper. How is any of that helping you when you make what sure sound like half-excusatory statements. Own it or disown it, but just do something correctly and all the way.
2 Timothy 1:7; 1 Corinthians 16:13;
“Your time might be better spent considering post #2135.”
No, I read over it. I have no quarrel whatsoever with the verses. The opening comments, and the commentary, however are based upon a premise that is faulty to say the least.
Even other Protestants would have a problem with some of the commentary since the rise of the New Perspective on Paul - which still isn’t right.
“Only a suggestion; not reading your mind.”
Right.
Here’s a suggestion: From a former Protestant: http://www.amazon.com/The-Catholic-Perspective-Paul-Christianity/dp/0578050161
this woul dbe a step in the right direction: http://www.amazon.com/Theology-Paul-Apostle-James-Dunn/dp/0802844235/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418683383&sr=8-1-fkmr2&keywords=theology+of++paul+vander
Still mad because I didn’t fall for your ploy?
My eyes glazed over when I discovered you are again posting the same old stuff ad nauseam. Feeling guilty?
**Sigh**
As God is our witness, whom are you accusing of intentionally trying to deceive others about what God said ( "giving partial sentences or a few out-of-context words - intentionally trying to deceive others about what God's word says.") ?
Do you really have nothing better to do with your time that follow Freepers around dogging them for an answer to whatever whim you stop on?
It's simple, I deny that I have ever denied Mary is the Mother of God WITH US. Hopefully, you notice the difference. Now, should we expect RCs to finally start using that appellation to further clarify the TRUE role of Mary and help her uneducated, uncatechized flock to avoid the worship of her?
"Yes" or "no" would be simple, like when one is asked if he believes Jesus is the Messiah.
There comes a point when those who have hardened their hearts, refused to see, and refused to understand Truth that God says, “okay, if that’s what you insist upon, then I’ll seal your hardened heart, sight and understanding, forever.” You see God doing that to individuals over and over in Scripture. And then no amount of prayer can alter their doom.
“Still mad because I didn’t fall for your ploy?”
I used no ploy. I posted a link. You either click on it or you don’t. It’s up to you. What you don’t do is accuse me of using a ploy and then post that false accusation as a reason as to why - just as you have said in several posts - you resorted to “trickery”.
“My eyes glazed over when I discovered you are again posting the same old stuff ad nauseam.”
Again, you keep digging your hole deeper and deeper. Why would you have a problem with me posting YOUR OWN WORDS?
“Feeling guilty?”
No. Since you seem not to like seeing posts with your own words in them, are you feeling guilty about them?
“**Sigh**”
Sigh, all you like. They were your words. You’ll probably keep digging that hole.
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