Posted on 12/08/2014 2:32:24 PM PST by NYer
I do...But it doesn't have the perversion you espouse in it...
Most if not all of your traditions and doctrines contradict scripture...
IOW, the Immaculate Conception has nothing to do with Christ’s, it refers to Mary’s. Mary and the rest of the world’s virgins were conceived the same way. Now a virgin conceiving and giving birth to the Son of God, that there is a miracle no matter where you are from.
Luk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Thats Jesus talkin’.
**491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:**
I’m curious to know what pope Pius was smokin when he uttered that nonsense.
So....somehow Mary escaped the sinful nature of her parents?
Oh, they were sinless as well?? (I think I’ve heard that excuse before)
Maybe the pope should declare that Mary’s grandparents, great grandparents, and great great grandparents were somehow sinless as well, just to play it safe.
And let the pope speak this declaration in his best Yul Brynner impersonation:
“So let it be written,.........so let it be done!”
**Of the many religious writings current in that day, the Church selected those her collective wisdom considered authoritative and declared that to be the Bible.**
The Church selected????
Nope. ALL scripture is from inspiration of God. HE PRESERVES IT!
And he’ll use any means necessary to do that, whether it be a pagan Egyptian king welcoming Jacob and his seed to Egypt, ravens helping to preserve his word (in Elijah), pagan kings helping to strengthen Jerusalem’s walls and rebuild it’s temple. AND,....preserving his Son in Egypt until Herod was dead.
God preserves his Word. Others may take credit for that, but they are being ignorant imho.
For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23; Rom. 5:12; I Kings 8:46; Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:9; Galatians 3:22; I John 1:8-10)
Thanks for your post. I too have a background in Greek. Just a few days ago this was discussed and here is part of the response I posted. Sorry to recycle. It is not from lack of respect for you. It gets old posting the same things over and over from scratch...and it's been a long day.
Mary was highly “favored” (Gr. kecharitomene) because God chose to bestow upon her a special grace (“favor,” Gr. charis). Eph. 1:6, the only other New Testament occurrence of kecharitomene).Here is Eph. 1:6 compare:
“to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.”
Please note that God chose to freely bestow this grace upon us in Christ. Not based on any merit - exacly as in the case of Mary - but because He is gracious.
Both instances in the Scripture of the word kecharitomene are used in an identical way. Grace is bestowed because of God’s free choice.
Mary was highly blessed to receive His gracious choice of her as the one to bear Messiah. All believers are highly blessed to receive His gracious eternal life in Christ.
In both cases, God decreed and accomplished His sovereign grace in eternity past. To go directly to your claim. He chose these actions and they were accomplished in eternity past.
The angel’s address to Mary means simply, Hail, thou that art the especially chosen and favoured of the Most High, to attain the honour every Jewish woman has wanted to have.
No where does the Scripture teach she was immaculate.
No Apostle refers to her this way.
No passage affirms this of Mary.
No support for this idea in any contemporaneous:
Christian literatureNothing in before 100 ad supports this idea. It comes into the Church later - much later.
Christian artworks
Secular writings
Secular artworks
best to you
From reading where and why this dogma was finally declared nearly two thousand years later, it looks as though the "cult of Mary" was the impetus, prodded by many supposedly miraculous visions, apparitions and visitations from "Mary" or one purporting to be her. There was certainly no Apostolic witness for the dogma nor was it even considered until centuries after the Apostles all died. Not even John, who was in charge of caring for Mary when Jesus ascended, makes any mention of her in his epistles.
If Catholics want to believe this is all part of the truth it's no skin off my nose. But, when they assert they alone have the "fullness of the faith" and we non-Caths are bound for hell because we aren't in line with everything their "traditions" decree, then I will unabashedly defend why I don't believe like them on this and several other doctrines.
**The Greek word “kecharitomene” is a past-perfect participle. This means that the action was completed fully and perfectly in the past.**
God knew in advance that Mary would obey His desires. He simply had the angel let her know that it was by his grace (unmeritted favor) that she would be PERMITTED to be mother to the Son.
**The Virgin Mary was “graced” from all time, completely.**
I think some popes had some ‘really good stuff’ in the medicine cabinet.
Nor did he instruct his disciples to write down his words and compile them into a book to be used as the sole teaching of the faith. With the possible exception of the Book of Revelation (Apocalypse) by St. John the Apostle, Jesus Christ gives no such instructions to any of His disciples or Apostles.
See my post #51.
“Nor did he instruct his disciples to write down his words and compile them into a book to be used as the sole teaching of the faith. “
As it turns out, the Godhead includes the Father and the Holy Spirit also. They did inspire and move men to write down God’s words. They declare the words are sufficient for salvation and maturity.
“All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;” II Timothy 3:16
“or no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” II Peter 1:21
please see #53 :-)
Which Catholic doctrine teaches that Mary is God (please post the link)? It is a fact that Mary is the mother of God.
“With the possible exception of the Book of Revelation (Apocalypse) by St. John the Apostle, Jesus Christ gives no such instructions to any of His disciples or Apostles. “
I will add to your suggestion above that Christ met the Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus and later Paul was caught up into the heavens and received direct revelation from Christ.
“It is a fact that Mary is the mother of God. “
It is a fact that Mary was chosen to bear Messiah and she and faithful Joseph were chosen to raise Messiah.
Luke 1:28
Already discussed in post #48
It's part of their culture, which seeks to take those things Divine and attribute them to humans.
That is how Satan functions. He uses PT Barnum's famous lines...
"You can fool some of the people all the time!!!"
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