Did Adam and Eve Really Exist?

Crisis Magazine ^ | November 24, 2014 | DENNIS BONNETTE

[redleghunter]

>>despite some verses in the Bible that suggest otherwise.<<

Which verses?

[redleghunter]

>>Is the exact number of human beings who caused original sin any more essential than the names of the rivers in the Garden of Eden?<<

Well St. Paul thought so:

Romans 5:

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “Did God part the Red Sea?” <<

.
That one has been proven to be fact; we have the Ron Wyatt video footage of demolished chariots on the floor of the Red Sea.

[Holdem Or Foldem]

The problem with the so called chariot remains is that a small bronze tag recovered at the scene states that it is property of Paramount Pictures. :)

[redleghunter]

The creation account is short and sweet. There’s a reason for that. The Bible is not about God trying to prove His existence and works to atheists.

The Scriptures are about God’s revelation to mankind on how we fell from His Grace, and how He promises us a plan of deliverance from the fallen state.

That is why more than 90% of the Bible is about God’s plan for deliverance and redemption.

Genesis is short and sweet. It should be. God made all things perfect. Adam rebelled, disobeyed then separated from God.

God did not have to tell Moses and the early Hebrews He created all. They knew and those today thus discerned know.

So the details you seek and some demand from God, by recorded revelation was clearly not His focus. This does not say we should ignore scientific studies, observations and experimentation. It just means such was not the main effort of God’s revelation to mankind.

Trying to wrestle with Big Bang was not and is not Christ’s command to preach to all nations. It was to preach His death and resurrection. Which is why Genesis is short and sweet. All the rest leads to Christ and His work.

I find it odd Christians grapple with creation. I can understand why skeptics, atheists and agnostics do, but not those proclaiming Christ as Lord and Savior.

For if a Christian believes Jesus performed miracles defying our physical laws how is Genesis 1-3 so hard to accept?

[redleghunter]

>>According to the Bible we humans are products of the incestuous relationship between Noah and his daughter(s).<<

Are you Roman Catholic? I ask because the above is not found I scriptures. Noah entered the ark with three sons all married to women.

[redleghunter]

Are you responding as a Roman Catholic?

[redleghunter]

LOL 2001 the movie is a great remedy for insomnia:)

[allendale]

Again the point of Genesis was that all of creation was from God. At the time of Jesus the little history that people knew was that Kingdoms were conquered by other kingdoms and the current rulers were not the founders. For example Israel , the Kingdom of David , was conquered and now ruled by Rome. So what about creation. Who made it? Did the God of Israel find it? Take it over from someone other. No. The answer that Jesus gave and taught over and over through his ministry was that there was but one God and that he was the Creator of all, which is the heart of the Genesis message. Jesus reaffirmed the message of Genesis. As far as is known He never sat down in a seminar and deconstructed his parables, symbols nor did he dissect the Scriptures as one does today other than to disparage and humiliate those who sought to justify themselves with the common “It is written...”

[boatbums]

Yep. That’s them in that picture. I’d recognize them anywhere. That be them.

Yep! 'cept, it wasn't an apple Eve ate but a banana...because it had appeal. ;o)

[boatbums]

(If Genesis is to be believed, then we all sprang from incestuous relationships, the children of Adam and Eve had to marry and mate one another.)

I don't see any reason why Genesis should NOT be believed. Don't forget, these first humans lived hundred of years and we don't know how long they remained in childbearing condition. If you look at cats, for example:

Eighty million cats is a lot of cats. However, you would be surprised how quickly two cats can become that 80 million. If you let two cats breed at will — and then allow their offspring to breed at will, these two cats will have 80 million progeny within a decade! This assumes two litters per year and 2.8 surviving kittens per litter. Here are the numbers:

First year: 12

Second year: 66

Third year: 382

Fourth year: 2,201

Fifth year: 12,680

http://www.care2.com/greenliving/how-long-does-it-take-2-cats-to-turn-into-80-million.html/2

Granted, humans aren't cats and they don't have "litters", though we hear of women giving birth to multiples all the time. Plus, a cat's lifespan is 15 - 20 years AT BEST. It's only around 5 for feral cats these days. For humans who lived for hundreds of generations it's not unfeasible that a man might mate with a distant relative and it not BE incest at all.

[boatbums]

Yes, that works out fine until God rests on the seventh day and then says, in verse 4 these are the generations in which the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that God made the earth and the heavens. So it took generations according to verse 4 but was counted as one day.

I don't think it does. The Hebrew word that you are reading translated as "generation" is a word that means an account, or a record or telling of the events and is translated that way in a number of Bible versions.

This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens. (Gen. 2:4 NIV)http://biblehub.com/genesis/2-4.htm

[boatbums]

One need not believe in the truth of ancient Catholicism or Orthodoxy to admit that the current position of both churches is a modern reaction to Protestantism, not the ancient immemorial "unchanged" teaching . . . however many would like to claim otherwise.

I disagree with your conclusion here that the current position of Catholicism and Orthodoxy WRT creation and evolution is a reaction to Protestantism. I see it as their reaction to modern agnostic and atheistic "scientific" theories on the origin of the universe and life itself and a fear of appearing as nonscientific or "fundamentalist" and being open to criticism and mockery. It's more of having your cake and eating it, too.

Instead of trusting that what God said in His sacred word concerning what, how and when He created all things and standing by that while modern "science" tries to figure it all out in fits and starts - sometimes contradicting previous absolute proofs - without acknowledging there even IS a Creator, is cowardly. I think it's hilarious watching the fools who say in their hearts, "There is no God.", backtrack on previous heralded "discoveries" that supposedly proved a theory beyond all doubt when something new is discovered that exposes their foolishness and makes them start all over again. God truly mocks them in holds them in derision. The wisdom of man is foolishness with God and, professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

[boatbums]

The trouble with writing off so much of Scripture as mere allegories, myths, legends or folk tales is that, with that kind of hermeneutic, NOTHING can be taken literally and EVERYTHING can be written off if one finds the literal not to their liking. What I have found in my forty-five plus years of Bible study is that God means what He says and says what He means. IF something is a parable, He insures it is explained to those with ears to hear. When He uses allegory, it clearly spells that out, too, and Scripture interprets Scripture.

[boatbums]

For if a Christian believes Jesus performed miracles defying our physical laws how is Genesis 1-3 so hard to accept?

Amen! Is anything to hard for God?

[Cvengr]

2 additional points.

1) For a proper study of human growth rates, we only have to study that documented for Israel during the Exodus.

Reverse calculations of the growth rates give an age closer to the dates documented in Scripture than the billions and billions of years commonly assumed.

2) The first generation after the flood is a unique generation, in that the parents outlived their grandchildren. Rmember how the first generations didn’t just live 72 some odd years, but for a thousand plus years. It is very likely that many stories were spread amongst their remnant of ancient history, which were then carried into other bloodlines and then future lineages.

[Diapason]

“If other humans existed elsewhere, that would explain Genesis 4:14. If there were no other humans besides the first four, what exactly was Cain afraid of? That would also explain where Cain got his wife.”

We are told that Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters. These and their offspring are the ones of whom Cain was afraid. It would also be from among these that Cain got his wife. No reason to think otherwise.

Incestuous relationships were not inherently sinful. They only became unadvisable after the degenerative effects of sin had had an effect. The first few generations would have shown very little of the future ill effects.

[verga]

You are wrong.

[verga]

Most that question the word do so because they’ve no idea of the plan.

I believe that is part of it. There is a certain percentage that don't care that there is a plan and also a certain percentage that believe that they know better than God.

[verga]

<>I>That one has been proven to be fact; we have the Ron Wyatt video footage of demolished chariots on the floor of the Red Sea

I have told this to the Mormons that come to visit. To compare it to the epic battle that supposedly took place near Hill Cumorah in upstate New York. Do you have a link?