Did Adam and Eve Really Exist?

Crisis Magazine ^ | November 24, 2014 | DENNIS BONNETTE

[Elsie]

There are no atheists in foxholes.

[BroJoeK]

redleghunter: "Also, if your clarification was thus: 'some miracles God used the natural elements under His command to intervene and in others there is absolutely no natural explanation.'
Now IMO that would be Biblically observant as some people were healed with absolutely no natural explanation; yet some as in Hezekiah and Naaman were healed by God by a natural prescription."

Agreed, but then you have the example of Noah's world-flood, a historical event for which there is no scientific evidence -- how should we understand that?
Well, there is physical evidence of at least three "world class" floods which could easily have inspired the story -- 1) filling the Mediterranean Sea (5 million years ago), 2) filling the Persian Gulf (8,000 years ago) or 3) filling the Black Sea (5,000 years ago).
The last two were recent enough... or the story could just result from especially large flooding of the Tigris & Euphrates rivers.

We also know about past population minimums, where human race survival depended on a very small number of individuals -- Toba eruption in Indonesia, 70,000 years ago comes to mind.

Regardless, the Bible makes basic points, all of which remain valid, regardless of which specific disaster Noah refers to.

[redleghunter]

Agreed, but then you have the example of Noah's world-flood, a historical event for which there is no scientific evidence -- how should we understand that?

Frankly, believe it. It is how God communicated the account to Abraham that matters. Eventually, if God wills it we will make the scientific discovery.

"For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.”

The above is what we have revealed. Only exceptions to this judgment were the inhabitants with Noah and those in the sea, as God specifies 'face of the earth'.

An example of archaeology catching up to the Biblical account is the Gospel of Luke. 19th Century liberal theologians and skeptics derided Luke's account as historically inaccurate or having to of a historian of later time given the details. However in the early 20th Century Sir William Ramsay set out to 'prove' the skeptics correct and found different (William M. Ramsay, The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament, 1915, pg 222).

Some excerpts as the tome is referenced above.

I began with a mind unfavorable to it...but more recently I found myself brought into contact with the Book of Acts as an authority for the topography, antiquities, and society of Asia Minor. It was gradually borne upon me that in various details the narrative showed marvelous truth3.

Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy...this author should be placed along with the very greatest historians4.

3. William M. Ramsay, St. Paul the Traveler and the Roman Citizen, 1982, pg 8

4. William M. Ramsay, The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament, 1915, pg 222

(http://www.bibleevidences.com/archeology.htm#Footnote 3)

More detail here on Ramsay

The point being we had, at one point in recent history, a majority of theologians taking aim at the historical details of the Gospel of Luke and Acts. Not long after (25-30 years) such beliefs, assertions or arguments proved premature. I believe we have a similar case with some of the OT historical accounts as well.

[Partisan Gunslinger]

There are no atheists in foxholes.

The problem is for those fooled in the tribulation of antiChrist, they won't think they're in any foxholes:

Dan 8:23 ¶ And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

The antiChrist shall come in peacefully and prosperously.

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The antiChrist will bring peace and safety, all you have to do is worship him.

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

When the antiChrist comes there will seem to be an end to wars and rumours of wars. That's why it will be so easy to arrest some of the 7000, it will seem to the world that the 7000 will want to go back to the times of wars and rumours of wars. They will be arrested to be "de-programmed", as was said earlier on this thread.

[BroJoeK]

redleghunter: "Frankly, believe it. It is how God communicated the account to Abraham that matters.
Eventually, if God wills it we will make the scientific discovery."

Moses, but yes, I understand.

[redleghunter]

Yes, indeed Moses. Thank you.

[PaulZe]

No it doesn’t teach the earth is flat but the ancient inspired author believed the earth was flat...just draw a picture of each day...stars are lights in the sky etc

[PaulZe]

No it doesn’t teach the earth is flat but the ancient inspired author believed the earth was flat...just draw a picture of each day...stars are lights in the sky etc

[PaulZe]

No it doesn’t teach the earth is flat but the ancient inspired author believed the earth was flat...just draw a picture of each day...stars are lights in the sky etc

[PaulZe]

I am talking about the first chapter of the book of Genesis. not Isaiah...from separate eras and separate biblical traditions.

[mdmathis6]

The Bible is a spiritual whole, pointing to the person of Jesus Christ. It all hangs together!

[mdmathis6]

I think you are reinterpreting based on what you think peasants and unlearned folks down thru history have all colloquially thought and were taught. I don’t get any clue from the literal readings of Genesis that Moses(who wrote Genesis) thought the world was flat at all. Moses spent 40 days on Sinai in the burning presence of God.

[PaulZe]

Moses did not “write” the book of Genesis. The bible existed as oral tradition for many centuries prior to having pen put to paper. (how many people in the ancient world knew how to read?) There are many oral traditions and manuscripts that formed into the bible( even some borrowed from the pagan world). To say Moses wrote the book of Genesis, in the sense that he sat down with pen in hand and wrote it, is extremely simplistic.