Posted on 11/11/2014 4:27:47 AM PST by Zakeet
Mormon leaders have acknowledged for the first time that the church’s founder and prophet, Joseph Smith, portrayed in church materials as a loyal partner to his loving spouse Emma, took as many as 40 wives, some already married and one only 14 years old.
The church’s disclosures, in a series of essays online, are part of an effort to be transparent about its history at a time when church members are increasingly encountering disturbing claims about the faith on the Internet. Many Mormons, especially those with polygamous ancestors, say they were well aware that Smith’s successor, Brigham Young, practiced polygamy when he led the flock in Salt Lake City. But they did not know the full truth about Smith.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
“Religion is a ritual “
No, it is not. Try looking up the word. And, just because someone else did the sex pervert routine before the Mormons and Muslims doesn’t negate my equating them together.
Don’t try to be so argumentative.
Is it possible the word "Mormon" is derived from "Moor man"?
You forgot the multiple wives of Barak Obama, Senior.
Is it true that Mormon men don’t care how you bring um, just “Bring’um Young.”
Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey and more money.
Every wife one man has is easing the misery of another.
“At least he didn’t order his followers to behead anybody who didn’t join up.”
I find this deflection consistent in Mormon apologists - “well Mormons aren’t trying to kill us at least”!.
Personally, I respect the wolf growling up on the hill more than I do the wolf in sheep’s clothing within my own gates.
And I consider the latter much more dangerous.
Sweety, all my family, including my husband are Mormon. All my neighbors, teachers, friends. Just because I disagree with their religious beliefs doesn’t make me a ‘hater.’ But you clearly hate me, and I forgive you. Smooches!
I generally go by “You shall know them by their fruits”
In my experience the Mormon tree has produced good fruit.
Harry Reid notwithstanding.
I would also wager that you have never gotten really close to a Mormon; there tends to be a certain distance established between Mormons and those outside the One True Church.
At the same I would appreciate your comments on your experiences - really.
“I was under the impression that this was already well known.”
By non-Mormons, yes.
“If there was a cover up, it wasn’t very successful.”
Well, it was until recently. Many Mormons openly denied that Smith had multiple wives or if they admitted that much they said he did not consummate the marriages, the wives were old, infirm women who needed a man to support them, etc.
Then you have this bizarre thing: “Smith’s son Joseph Smith III and widow Emma Smith repeatedly taught that Smith opposed the practice and was not a polygamist.”
Smith III and Emma were the force behind organizing the RLDS (Reorganized Latter Day Saints), that is, the Mormons who stayed in Missouri and abandoned polygamy when everybody else went to Salt Lake. Today the organization is called the Community of Christ. The point is that Smith’s own son and his first wife vehemently denied that Smith practiced polygamy! Clearly they would know if he did or not, but the evidence always has been overwhelming that he did so they were lying through their teeth about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Community_of_Christ_and_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints
I have encountered Mormons who knew nothing about Smith’s polygamy and other Mormons who knew about it but said the multiple marriages were of a spiritual and non-physical kind. How those two views co-exist among otherwise “orthodox” and “practicing” Mormons with Temple recommends is beyond me.
Same could be said of liberals. Problem is they are too biased to consider facts that do not support their beliefs.
Don’t try to be so argumentative.
I did look it up about 58 years ago, Religion comes from the word ritual.
But maybe the great religious professors has changed it by now as I would not put anything past them.
As for the equation I was just reminding you that some of our founding fathers which people of faith honor the most other than Jesus himself did have more than one wife.
I don’t hate you, colorcountry, and I apologize if it came across that way. I also mistook you for someone else, with a similar user name, who often posts lengthy threads on Mormonism. That influenced my response, and I also apologize for that.
I guess it’s time, once again, to self-quarantine from FR. I’m a better lurker than poster (obviously).
Wrong. "Ritual" comes from its own Latin cognate, ritualis.
"Religion" comes from the Latin "religio," which is a compound of "re" and "ligio". "Ligio" is cognate to the English "ligature," and refers to tying something together. "Re" as a prefix means "again". "Re-ligio" means to "retie" or "tie again" or "tie back together".
At least they were all women.
Wrong. “Ritual” comes from its own Latin cognate, ritualis.
And it has always been man made and always involved ritual.
If you frequent these threads, you'll see that the animosity is directed at Mormonism, not Mormons. It is the institution, not the people which is detested. Paul tells us that we contend against "powers and principalities", not "flesh and blood" (Ephesians 6:12).
Most of the regular posters on these forums have many friends and family still involved in Mormonism.
And Harry Reid’s take on this is?
My experiences, as you suggest, have not been “close.” They have been mostly business/professional. In this context my take-aways have always been positive. So as I will readily admit that I don’t know the inside-baseball of Mormonism, the Morman’s I have known have all been good people.
Discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal.
Question...then...do you accuse Jesus of "tearing down"? (And was some of Jesus' tearing down necessary?)
For specifics see:
Verse consideration #1: Jesus called the Pharisees "blind guides" (Matt. 15:13). Somebody who is a guide is more involved with others than people who simply have a bad heart condition. The fact is these teachers of the law were the spiritual surgeons of their day. Would you want such a blind surgeon operating on you? The issue we're talking about here is not simply that the Pharisees' own heart condition was poor -- but that they were involved in teaching, guiding many others! We need to understand the cultural dimension of this in light of Luke 11:52 -- that the Pharisees took away the key to knowledge.
Verse consideration #2: [Yet another example of exported legalism] Matt. 23:4: They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on OTHER PEOPLE'S shoulders..."
Verse consideration #3: You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. (Matt 23:13)
The Pharisees consistently rejected the Lord's teaching of truth; and Jesus, much to your apparent chagrin, criticized them rather openly for it. Here's yet another example:
Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” (John 8:46-47)
You need to even look @ the broader context of the last part of John 8 -- where Jesus references the Pharisees as "children of the devil."
I don't think somebody can be more "harsh" in speaking the truth than to say to a group of religious people:
(a) "You don't belong to God"
(b) And the reason you don't belong to God is because you don't hear the truth He speaks ("hears what God says")
(c) And you reject the truth I'm telling you right now ("you do not believe me...why don't you believe me?")
(d) And on top of that (the broader context of John 8), you are of your father, the devil, whose native language is lies!
How did the apostle Paul deal with the legalistically-minded Galatians? Paul referenced the legalistic Galatians twice as "foolish" and once as "bewitched" a gentle exhortation?
Vitriolic?
More Jesus on the legalists:
Matt. 15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matt. 16:12: ...guard against the yeast...against the TEACHING of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Luke 11:52: ... you have taken away the key to knowledge.
John 8:44,47: You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies…The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
Matthew 23:2-4: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
Mark 7:6-8,13: He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ 8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” …13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
Matthew 23:2-7, 13-34 : 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
40 wives??
Is he a Muslim sultan?
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