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Seven Sub-Topical Samples Proving Mormonism's Occultic Origins [The OTHER WORLD Series]
Colofornian | Oct. 28, 2014 | Colofornian

Posted on 10/28/2014 5:23:04 AM PDT by Colofornian

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To: laotzu

“Are you seriously asking about my underwear?”

No, I’m asking if you are wearing the “sacred” mormon undergarments - that the cult requires their “temple worthy” members to wear?


101 posted on 10/30/2014 12:48:37 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: laotzu; aMorePerfectUnion
As this is a Christian bashing thread, it is the Christian faith that is being weakened.

That would be true if and only if we were dealing with a Christian faith. In this instance we aren't

102 posted on 10/30/2014 12:53:18 PM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Looks like cat bashing to me. Cats have purrfect grammar.


103 posted on 10/30/2014 12:54:48 PM PDT by Veto! (Opinions freely dispensed as advice)
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To: Elsie

bttt


104 posted on 10/30/2014 1:11:37 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter (con)
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To: Godzilla
Satan wants to weaken our faith, for us to argue amongst ourselves, and deny our Christian brothers and sisters.

I will not be swayed, or join in this effort.

I will stand with my Mormon brothers and sisters in Christ.

105 posted on 10/30/2014 1:12:10 PM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu
Satan wants to weaken our faith, for us to argue amongst ourselves, and deny our Christian brothers and sisters.

Theirs is not the same Christ i worship. Even their recent prophet said as much. They cannot be a brother or sister as long as they serve a false christ.

106 posted on 10/30/2014 1:28:06 PM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: laotzu

Do you believe that a man can attain perfection, ascend to the highest level of worthiness, marry countless numbers of women, create a world, populate that world through celestial sex with his countless numbers of wives and then rule over that world as “god”?

If so, then you might be a mormon...


107 posted on 10/30/2014 1:51:08 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: SZonian; Godzilla
The swine satan keeps changing his guise saying "deny them, deny them, abandon them". His lackeys are starting to swarm. Who will he send next?

The pathetic nature of it is laughable.

108 posted on 10/30/2014 2:03:06 PM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu

Typical, ignore the content and go straight to the personal attack...

That folks engage the nonsensical content of your “arguments” with truth and it is deemed “laughable” indicates one thing and one thing only...

Satan’s minions deny the truth...that it is ignored says much.

Besides, if you are having such a problem with the replies, why engage at all?


109 posted on 10/30/2014 2:08:13 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: laotzu; SZonian
The swine satan keeps changing his guise saying "deny them, deny them, abandon them". His lackeys are starting to swarm. Who will he send next?

Yep, you are a lacky

110 posted on 10/30/2014 2:30:29 PM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: SZonian
personal attack...problem with the replies...why engage at all?

Nowhere have I engaged in personal attack. That is a false accusation.

That I am still conversing on the third page makes it obvious I have no problem with replies. That is a false accusation.

You engaged me, not the other way around.

Satan’s minions deny the truth...that it is ignored says much

Indeed. I await your reply/false accusation.

111 posted on 10/30/2014 2:30:56 PM PDT by laotzu
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To: Godzilla
you are a lacky

Ah! Personal attack. Sweet.

I have always understood that ad hominems qualify the loser of any debate.

112 posted on 10/30/2014 2:34:11 PM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu
I have always understood that ad hominems qualify the loser of any debate.

Then you lost a looooooong time ago.

113 posted on 10/30/2014 2:40:21 PM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Godzilla
Really? Where? Which post?

Please provide an example, or admit you have borne false witness against me.

114 posted on 10/30/2014 2:43:45 PM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu
"Nowhere have I engaged in personal attack."

Ah, sure, ok. Whatever you say.

115 posted on 10/30/2014 2:45:22 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Regarding factual evidence, three of these witnesses testified that they had:

“seen the plates which contain this record . . . And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon . . .”

Eight other witnesses testified that they saw and handled the plates.


116 posted on 10/30/2014 2:46:41 PM PDT by Normandy
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To: SZonian
Where? Provide the quote.

Did you seriously ask about my underwear?

117 posted on 10/30/2014 3:24:28 PM PDT by laotzu
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To: Tennessee Nana

I think you look great in those shorts! Keep it up. :)


118 posted on 10/30/2014 3:30:30 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: Normandy
Regarding factual evidence, three of these witnesses testified that they had:

“seen the plates which contain this record . . . And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon . . .”

Eight other witnesses testified that they saw and handled the plates.

Normandy, for the sake of your soul, please read what I am about to paste for you. It demonstrates that everything you just wrote is false.

Character of the 11 Witnesses

Joseph Smith claims that after he translated the plates, he returned them to the angel Moroni. Therefore, there is no way to verify the veracity of the plates or Smith's translation. Smith's only defense of his account is the eleven men who signed statements claiming to have seen the golden plates. Therefore, the credibility of Smith's account rests on the testimony of these eleven witnesses. There are three key witnesses who claim to have seen the angel show the golden plates to them. The remaining eight allege to have seen the plates but not the angel. The LDS church asserts these men never denied their testimony. However, when we examine the lives of the witnesses, we find they were untrustworthy, wavering, and gullible witnesses.

Six of the eleven witnesses, including the three key witnesses were eventually excommunicated from the church. Former Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson summed up the legacy of the eleven witnesses this way. "Six of the original Twelve Apostles selected by Joseph Smith were excommunicated. The three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon left the church. Three of Joseph Smith's counselors fell--one even helped plot his death. . . . The wolves among our flock are more numerous and devious today than when President Clark made a similar statement [in 1949]."

Let us first examine the character of the three key witnesses since their testimony is the most important. In a letter dated December 16, 1838, Joseph Smith stated this about the three key witnesses and John Whitmer, one of the eight. "John Whitmer, David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Martin Harris are too mean to mention."

Martin Harris' testimony shows him to be a gullible and unstable man. He changed his religious conviction approximately thirteen times. He had joined several Christian denominations and other cult groups that include the Universalists, Strangites, and the Shakers. In Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph Smith gave revelations in which he denounces Martin Harris and calls him a "wicked man." The Mormon leaders published an article in the Elder's Journal, a Mormon publication edited by Joseph Smith, in which they accused Harris guilty of "swearing, lying, cheating, swindling, drinking, with every species of debauchery. . ." (Elders Journal, August, 1838, 59). Here the leaders of the Mormon Church strongly criticize the character of Harris.

Oliver Cowdery was also shown to be a very gullible man. He was led astray by Hiram Page, one of the eight witnesses who himself claimed to have divine revelations from his own seer stone. Although Joseph Smith denounced Hiram as a false teacher, Smith stated "to our grief, however, we soon found that Satan had been lying in wait to deceive. . . . Brother Hiram Page had in his possession a certain stone, by which he obtained certain 'revelations' . . . all of which were entirely at variance with the order of God's House, . . ." Despite Smith's condemnation, Oliver Cowdery joined Page's movement. Not only was he a gullible man, he was also indicted on several accounts of fraudulent business practices. The Mormon Church in a letter wrote, "During the career of Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer's bogus money business, it got abroad into the world that they were engaged in it. . . . We have evidence of a very strong character that you are at this very time engaged with a gang of counterfeiters, coiners, and blacklegs . . ." Cowdery was eventually excommunicated and he later joined the Methodist Church.

David Whitmer wrote, "God spake to me again by his own voice from the heavens, and told me to 'separate myself from among the Latter- day Saints, for as they sought to do unto me, so should it be done unto them." In the spring of 1838, the heads of the church and many of the members had gone deep into error and blindness. . . . About the same time that I came out, the Spirit of God moved upon quite a number of the brethren who came out, with their families, all of the eight witnesses who were then living (except the three Smiths) came out; . . ." Here David Whitmer denounced the Mormon Church and encouraged people to follow his example and the example of the other witnesses and leave the church.

Joseph Smith in response attacked the character of David Whitmer. Smith stated, "God suffered such kind of beings to afflict Job . . . this poor man who professes to be much of a prophet, has no other dumb ass to ride but David Whitmer, to forbid his madness when he goes up to curse Israel: and this ass not being of the same kind as Balaam's . . . he brays out cursing instead of blessings. Poor ass!"

The character and life of the eleven witnesses to the Book of Mormon are very different from the Apostles of Christ. None of the Apostles wavered in their defense of Christ, even though all suffered and most died for their faith. The Apostles remained consistent in their teaching and never fell into any type of apostasy. Their lives were marked by honesty and integrity. They were never indicted for any criminal activity except for preaching Christ. The character of the Book of Mormon's eleven witnesses does not strengthen Smith's defense but cast further doubt on its authenticity.

Probe Ministry website quote

Normandy, you put forth the witnesses as testifying they had seen the plates and therefore, the plates existed. What you actually put forward is a group of false witnesses, who lacked character, morals and convictions. This is not support for your truth claim.

119 posted on 10/30/2014 4:16:32 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: Normandy
Normandy, To continue with the FALSE CLAIMS of the mormon witnesses, as recorded in history... PLEASE read this carefully and more than once.

"I have reflected long and deliberately upon the history of this church & weighed the evidence for & against it loth (sic) to give it up - but when I came to hear Martin Harris state in public that he never saw the plates with his natural eyes only in vision or imagination, neither Oliver [Cowdery] nor David [Whitmer] & that the eight witnesses never saw them & hesitated to sign that instrument for that reason, but were persuaded to do it, the last pedestal gave way, in my view our foundation was sapped & the entire superstructure fell in heap of ruins.

"I was followed by W Parrish, Luke Johnson & John Boynton [Boyington] all of who concurred with me, after we were done speaking M Harris arose & said he was sorry for any man who rejected the Book of Mormon for he knew it was true, he said he had hefted the plates repeatedly in a box with only a tablecloth or handkerchief over them, but he never saw them only as he saw a city through a mountain. And said that he never should have told that the testimony of the eight was false, if it had not been picked out of [him/me?] but should have let it passed as it was...

(Stephen Burnett letter to Lyman E. Johnson dated April 15, 1838. Typed transcript from Joseph Smith Papers, Letter book, April 20, 1837 - February 9, 1843, microfilm reel 2, pp. 64-66, LDS archives.)


120 posted on 10/30/2014 4:23:25 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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