Posted on 10/16/2014 6:19:45 PM PDT by Salvation
¡Hagan lío! Synod Bishops revolt against leadership and get their way UPDATE!
BIG UPDATE BELOW!
____
Apparently the bishops at the Synod are tired of being manipulated.
They created a little lío of their own.
In full view of the Pope, they rose up pretty much as a body and rebelled against the way Card. Baldisseri, who seems to be the chief architect of what may have been a pre-determined agenda, has been handling them.
I am reading Marco Tosattis piece at La Stampa.
My translation:
Synod, more censorship, protests
The General Secretary of the Synod [Card. Balidsseri] announced the decision not to publish the reports of the Circuli Minores [subcommittees by language groups, tasked with contributing elements to the final report]. The announcement provoked the protest of Card. Erdo [the president or chairman for this Synod], and numerous other Synodal Fathers. The Pope, silent and very serious. At last, Fr. Lombardi announced that the reports of the commissions would be made public.
[...]
Erdo took the floor, implicitly distancing himself from the report that bore his name, and saying that if that disceptatio had been made public, then the others of the Circulo Minores ought to be made public.
His speech was followed by an avalanche from many others along the same line, underscored by thunderous applause.
The Secretary of the Synod, Card. Balidisseri, was watching the Pope, as if in search of advice and lights, and the Pope remained silent and very serious.
Silent also were the Under-secretaries of the Synod, Fabene, Forte, Schoenborn and Maradiaga. [What a list.]
Kasper wasnt there.
Finally, Fr. Lombardi announced that the reports of the Commission would be made public.
This is a big deal because the bishops didnt simply roll over and let the appointees running the Synod run them over.
This Synod has been characterized by an unusual amount of information control. There has been little transparency about the workings of the Synod. Instead, the outside world was informed about what was being discussed through summaries. Sure, the leadership of the Synod said that the participants could talk to the press on their own, but thats not the same thing as knowing what went on the Synod hall. Then, what one might be able to imagine was a pre-positioned midpoint report was sprung on everyone, with weird and disturbing paragraphs that didnt seem to reflect the workings of the Synod over all. That caused Card. Erdo, who had signed it, openly during a presser to give up Archbp. Forte as the perp.
Then Card. Balidisseri determines that the reports of the subcommittees wouldnt be published. That was a bridge too far.
This in full view of the Pope, who seems not to have shown his hand, but also who seems not to have been pleased at what was going on.
Meanwhile, Nicole Winfield of AP, who seems never to tire of calling Card. Burke a hardliner or something like, has a piece about the origin of the language in the infamous midpoint Relatio about homosexuals:
Erdo has already named the official who wrote the section on gays, Monsignor [Archbp.] Bruno Forte, appointed by Pope Francis as the special secretary to the synod. Forte is an Italian theologian known for pushing the pastoral envelope [that's one way to put it] on dealing with people in irregular unions while staying true to Catholic doctrine. [Oh?]
Technically speaking, Forte and all the members of the drafting committee had access to far more material than the bishops themselves since they had the lengthy written speeches each synod father submitted prior to the meeting. Those written speeches factored into the draft report, even if the bishops didnt utter them during the four minutes each was allowed to speak. [Or see them at any point. This was another procedural point that some expressed concern about before the Synod. Everyone was to submit their speeches to Card. Baldisseri ahead of time. Who knows what happened to them then?]
In fact, the Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said he recalled only one speech out of about 265 about gays during the debate.
So its not surprising that bishops didnt recognize everything in the draft report since these written submissions werent made public or distributed to the bishops themselves, and the oral presentations only reflected a summary or particular point that a bishop wanted to make. But at the same time, there is no real way to know which bishop or bishops had proposed such ground-breaking language or whether it was more a reflection of Fortes view. [The controversial language was "ground-breaking" but Card. Burke is a "hardliner". Just so we're clear.]
Left-leaning Religion News Service has also taken up the standard liberal line (big surprise). They also never tire of calling Card. Burke a hard-liner, through they use a hyphen. Perhaps liberal outlets are comparing notes. I was amused at the beginning of a piece by RNSs Josephine Mckenna:
After two days of fighting between happy liberals and angry conservatives, the Vatican dispatched a leading moderate from the US Church to tell both sides to temper their expectations about impending changes in Church doctrine.
The problem is that the speakers at the presser were scheduled a few days in advance.
Notice how Left-leaning outlets always describe conservatives as angry or hardliners. They are clearly meanies. Liberals, on the other hand, are happy!
Meanwhile, ¡Hagan lío!
Little known fact
Did you know that Card. Baldisseri, before he was elevated to the College of Cardinals, was first the Titular Archbishop of Dioceletiana?
Who else has been the Titular Archbishop of Diocletiana?
§ Adolph Gottfried Volusius (22 Jun 1676 Appointed 17 Mar 1679 Died)
§ Jan Kazimierz Opalinski, O. Cist. (8 Jan 1680 Appointed 17 Nov 1681 Confirmed, Bishop of Chelmno (Culma, Kulm))
§ Maximilien Bormann (6 Apr 1682 Appointed 1687 Died)
§ Cristoforo Arduino Terzi, O.F.M. (10 Jul 1945 Appointed 11 Jul 1971 Died)
§ Annibale Bugnini, C.M. (6 Jan 1972 Appointed 3 Jul 1982 Died)
§ Pietro Rossano (7 Dec 1982 Appointed 15 Jun 1991 Died)
§ Lorenzo Baldisseri (15 Jan 1992 Appointed 22 Feb 2014 Appointed, Cardinal-Deacon of SantAnselmo allAventino)
§ Wojciech Zaluski (15 Jul 2014 Appointed )
What is interesting about this Synod is the role of the media and social media.
Had the social media existed at the time of the Second Vatican Council, it would never have been possible to ram through the radical liturgical reforms of the 60′s and 70′s.
UPDATE 16 Oct: 1454 GMT
Apparently, Card. Pell was the first one to rise up against Card. Baldisseri. When Baldisseri made the announcement, Card. Pell took the floor and said that the reports had to be published and that they were tired of the manipulation.
From that point, the bishops also rose up. When Baldisseri repeated his position, he was effectively shouted down.
At that point, Card. Baldisseri turned to the Pope and got the nod to publish.
UPDATE 16 Oct: 1530 GMT:
The reports of the Circuli Minores are available on the Vatican website. HERE
Card. Burkes would be in Anglicus A. Sample:
For example, where the Relatio appeared to be suggesting that sex outside of marriage may be permissible, or that cohabitation may be permissible, we have attempted to show why such lifestyles do not lead to human fulfillment. At the same time, we want to acknowledge that there are seeds of truth and goodness found in the persons involved, and through dedicated pastoral care these can be appreciated and developed. We believe that if we imply that certain life-styles are acceptable, then concerned and worried parents could very easily say Why are we trying so hard to encourage our sons and daughters to live the Gospel and embrace Church teaching?
> “Yeah well Orthodox have already given in on the marriage divorce remarriage thing.”
No, they have a slightly different structure, I will explain. But first note they are not compromising on or even considering homosexual unions. I find these latter developments with respect to the Roman Catholic Synod to be very disturbing. My hope has been that the RCC would make a strong and inspiring statement in opposition to the homosexual normalization movement that is sweeping western societies. But it seems there is a lack of courage and that is disturbing.
For the Orthodox Christians, it is true that their priests are allowed to marry and keep families. But to advance in their Church to say Bishop the neophytes must be accepted into their monasteries and train to become a Monk. Orthodox Monks are not allowed to marry just as in the RCC. So the higher ranks of the Orthodox Church are similar to the RCC.
Are people (not monks) permitted to divorce and remarry up to twice?
> “Are people (not monks) permitted to divorce and remarry up to twice?”
I really don’t think there are such rules. Divorce is frowned on. God hates divorce and Orthodox Christians adhere to that.
But I think divorce within Orthodox Christianity does not result in a complete denial of communion. It may be a case by case situation. One thing I do know is that when people sin which they inevitably will, the Orthodox deacons and priests chide them on to not sin and to always strive to do better. In that sense people have a chance to renew themselves and try again.
Being a Christian is really hard. I don’t know of any other human endeavor other than science that is as difficult.
Is this the Fr. John from the Harrisburg Diocese that did the EWTN Q&A show with Fr. Bob? If so, I trust him.
I agree, it is extremely harrowing.
Because the Orthodox (Christian) Church already has divorce-remarriage-communion (up to 3 putative spouses, right?) and contraception to boot.
Look, I love the Orthodox -— really -— but I see no reason to join a church which gave way years and years ago on the very points which the Culture of Death was pushing.
That’s what I thought, so if the Catholics cave, it’s Orthodox Judaism for me.
Here is what I find on the subject:
http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/liturgics/athenagoras_remarriage.htm
It is important here to explain a fundamental element of the Orthodox Churchs doctrine, namely that the dissolving of a marriage relationship does not ipso facto grant the right to enter into another marriage.
I think it is pretty clear in the above statement that there is no blanket rule covering this 'mystery' of the Church.
I would ask that you read all of Bishop Athenagoras' writing on the subject in the above link. It is very very illuminating and I for one am immensely grateful for his wisdom and teaching.
As regards the Roman Catholic Church, I am also immensely grateful for their role and influence in my life but I am very disturbed by their recent considerations of homosexual 'unions'.
Homosexuality is a sin just as divorce is a result of sin. But whereas divorce 'may allow' a person calling themself Christian to repent and try again with or without communion, homosexuality cannot be 'tried again'; it must be given up and left in the past in order to enter the Church. If a former homosexual falls again into the sin of homosexuality, it must be thrown off again before a relationship with the Church can be considered. It is the idea that homosexuality can somehow be accepted inside the Church that is disturbing as it means the Church condones sin and hence leads to the Church's destruction.
The Catholic Church's writings on these subjects that I have been able to find seem to inject legalism and pay only lip service to matters of the human spirit. To be fair, other faiths fare no better. But the essay of Bishop Athenagoras above is a gem and serves the purpose of drawing us closer so that we can get a peek at God's will. I would like to see an equally great scholar and teacher from the RCC write such essays and I know such scholars and teachers exist. I would bet they can be seen in the writings of the members of the Catholic Synod but I understand these essays are kept hidden from public view.
My words are not as wise and eloquent or as satisfying as others much more learned on the subject and much more spiritual in their approach. My sentiments are crude and embryonic. But I hope I have brought an instance of wisdom to the subject by posting the link to Bishop Athenagoras' writing on marriage and divorce.
“Is this the Fr. John from the Harrisburg Diocese that did the EWTN Q&A show with Fr. Bob? If so, I trust him”.
Yes.
Cool. I really liked that show. Fr. John and Fr. Bob were really good at explaining things in plain English.
I regret that I'm going to be away from the keyboard almost all day today, and can't give your comments the attention they deserve. Very sorry about that.
Let me state again that, despite all its excellent gifts and graces, Orthodoxy does indeed allow for 2 divorces and remarriages, ---a man could have three living spouses from supposedly "valid" marriages (I don't know if the Orthodox Church uses the word "valid")(and of course, he cannot have them concurrently!)
As I understand it--- correct me if I'm wrong --- in the Orthodox Church, repenting means being sorry about the divorce and the subsequent bigamy of remarriage, but being allowed to "try again" by maintaining that second marriage, which the Lord Jesus calls adulterous. In the Catholic Church, repenting means being sorry about the divorce and remarriage, and "trying again" either by rejoining the first, true spouse, or by abstaining from further sexual relations outside of that first and only marriage.
And the Orthodox Church does allow contraception. I know of two couples, one former Evangelical and one former Episcopalian, who realized when they exited Protestantism that they had to choose seriously between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. They chose Orthodoxy in part because they wanted to continue in their contraceptive sexual practices.
If I am mistaken, jump in and set me straight. I will praise your name!! I venerate Orthodoxy and would love to be proved in error on this.
“sheesh, think man, Christ was Jewish”
He was, but as Christ He brought Christianity.
There is no “Orthodox Jew” in this world accepted by other Jews as orthodox who believes in Jesus as Lord and Savior. For a Christian to leave the Church and adopted Judaism is to abandon Christ by definition and practice. Didn’t any of that occur to you?
Reminding me that soon after Peter made his act of faith, he turned around and made a statement that Our LorD slap him down.
Orthodox Judaism descends from the sect called the Pharisees. That may be transcend back to about 200 BC. and it survived the destruction of the Temple. There were a number of schools in this movement, and the rabbis of later time took many things from one or another of these schools. But orthodox judaism as we expressed in the Talmud did not take shape until the 2nd century, and it largely disregarded the very important apocalyptic movements that were very strong up to that time, and which greatly influenced the Christian movement.
“Orthodox Judaism”
My point still stands - “Orthodox Judaism” is not Christian. It is Jewish and has no affinity for, nor belief in, Jesus Christ.
It was created as part of a reaction not only to Christianity but to other messianic, apocalyptic forms of Judaism, and of other sages. Let us say that Christianity is the true form of Judaism, one that better suits a people scattered among many lands rather than one, and no greater antiquity than Christianity. If we began as a Jewish sect,so did rabbinical, or orthodox Judaism, and about even before the destruction of the Temple.
“It was created as part of a reaction not only to Christianity but to other messianic, apocalyptic forms of Judaism, and of other sages. Let us say that Christianity is the true form of Judaism, one that better suits a people scattered among many lands rather than one, and no greater antiquity than Christianity. If we began as a Jewish sect,so did rabbinical, or orthodox Judaism, and about even before the destruction of the Temple.”
And, after all that, my point still stands - Orthodox Judaism is not Christian. It is Jewish and has no affinity for, nor belief in, Jesus Christ.
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