THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY: Condemned as Heretical by 2 Popes in the 5th and 6th Centuries

christiantruth.com ^ | William Webster

[CynicalBear]

Base your eternal destination on conjecture if you wish. Don’t come preaching conjecture and not expect the sword of truth which is the word of God.

[daniel1212]

Do you have evidence? Keep in mind Mary is already special; she had a virgin birth.

In the light of how the Holy Spirit reveals even lesser exceptions to the norm or even lesser subjects, the evidence against the IM and PV is the absence of any testimony or need for it, which certainly excludes it as worthy of required assent.

[Heart-Rest]

"Only in RCC teaching is there gradation of sin."

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If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal.    There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.    All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.    1 John 5:16-17

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[daniel1212]

Only in RCC teaching is there gradation of sin.

All sins are the same is only true insofar as they make you a law breaker in need of salvation which even the smallest sinner needs as much as the more profligate sinner.

Thus not all only are all sins the same in the sense of making you a culpable sinner, but all sinners are the same insofar as they are both sinners, who are helpless to earn salvation or escape eternal damnation. and thus must rest upon the risen Lord Jessus to save by His sinless shed blood, thanks be to God.

However, that there are differences in sins as regards the degree of evil, and of sinners, is very Biblical. This can be seen in the degrees of penalty, so that the punishment for a thief is not the same as for an idolator, adulterer or murderer. Abraham lying about Sarah being his sister (she was his half sister) versus wife, to save his skin, is not the same as Herod's slaughter of the the innocents, or the sin of Sodom, "because their sin is very grievous." (Gn. 18:20) .

And likewise there are worse sinners than others, based upon not only what manner of sin they engage in, but how this relates to the degree of light and ability given. Thus it is written that Manasseh king of Judah did wickedly above all that the Amorites did, (2 Kings 21:11) while it shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for cities that saw such great grace as the Lord and His apostles manifested. (Mark 6:11)

For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. (Luke 12:48)

And likewise 'Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation." (Matthew 23:14)

And thus professed believers are overall held as the most accountable, and are thus given stern warnings against impenitent willful sin and drawing back in unbelief. (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:9,12; 10:25-39) And thus the lost will be "judged every man according to their works," (Revelation 20:13) in determining their sentence, while believers will rewarded or suffer loss of rewards based upon their labor in building the church. (1Cor. 3:8ff)

[boatbums]

At best this means that one cannot require belief in the Assumption; it fails to establish the Assumption is false.

That has been the point of this thread all along. Roman Catholicism DOES require belief in the Assumption of Mary as ex cathedra doctrine and those who do not believe it are anathematized, cut off from communion and, according to the CCC, unable to be saved. Those who are excommunicated - correct me if I am wrong - cannot go to heaven when they die as long as they die in that state.

If it all was just a matter of personal choice whether to believe the teaching or not, it wouldn't be an issue and there probably wouldn't be a thread on it - though I think it is an interesting point that two prior popes called heretical the ONLY writing that could have been a historical source for the belief. Without that, there IS nothing to base the dogma on other than wishful thinking of some people centuries afterward. Don't you wonder why the Apostle John never mentioned Mary's death in any of his epistles seeing as Jesus entrusted her care to him? His last book was written towards the end of his life and Mary was already long dead by then. If there had truly been a miraculous ascension of Mary to heaven, why wouldn't he have said anything about it? I think these are legitimate questions and are not asked just to tick Catholics off.

[mlizzy]

Now that’s just sad. Jesus is the Good Shepherd who gave His life for His sheep. He is FAR from frightening. He is our mediator. For the unbeliever, though, that’s a whole ‘nother story!

There are those, if they didn't have Mary to lead them, would never know of her Son. That's why throwing up blockades to Mary, is throwing up death to some.

[Steelfish]

Catholics used Petrine authority to interpret, sort out and put together the books we call the Bible.

Mormons, Muslins, Grahams, Sharptons are like Muslim imams, and Hindu shamans, basically semi-literate street preachers giving sacred scripture-written and the oral tradition- their “own” interpretations even though this flies in the face not only of preeminent Catholic theologians after whom major universities have been named around the world, but even against eminent theologians in the Protestant world, who have since converted to Catholicism.

So stay with the “indwelling of the Holy Spirit” while at the same time denying the work of the Holy Spirit that guided the early Church Fathers who put together and interpreted the Bible and established the belief in the Holy Eucharist celebrated each time a Mass is held!

[boatbums]

To Catholics the OT Deuterocanon is Scripture. To us, Martin Luther was the person who got people to stop regarding them as Scripture. I do know that he did not throw them in the garbage.

Here's a link you can read so that you will know the answer: http://tquid.sharpens.org/Luther_%20canon.htm#a2

[WVKayaker]

Sorry, got carried away with zeal. When someone spouts nonsense, and tries to link an established Christian Evangelist (Billy Graham) who has brought millions to the saving Grace of Christ, and tries to equate his preaching of the Gospel to cultist monstrosities leading to kool-aid death squads, it blinds my intellect.

I apologize for any personal attention, and will try to maintain the proper etiquette herein!

Thanks...

[mlizzy]

Of course I realize what is going on in the world, I know there are some of your colleagues who say we only are here to cause problems for Catholics and don't get involved in other threads, but that is not true.

I wasn't clear on this. The whole world is going to hell in a handbasket (which we see on Free Republic), so those of us who aren't right with God (via junk commentary), could be in a bad place with no time to ask forgiveness. Negative way to look at things, I know, but we should always be "ready" to go.

[WVKayaker]

[editor-surveyor]

>>They deny the dogma of the Assumption<<

.

John 3:13-15

[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

[mlizzy]

Well my goodness mlizzy read the text of the thread!

Maybe this is helpful:

"The issue here is Pope Gelasius (this decree is also attributed to Pope Damasus) condemned a long list of books as heretical, including one called "the Assumption of holy Mary." The decree doesn't say specifically what is heretical about the books listed. For example, another book in the list is called "the Infancy of the Savior." Obviously the idea that Jesus was an infant is not what made the book problematic, but there must have been some other heretical stuff in the book--same with the book on the Assumption. This decree was later reaffirmed by Pope Hormisdas. Here is the decree in question:" -Genesis 315

http://www.tertullian.org/decretum_eng.htm

[editor-surveyor]

John 3:13
.

[mlizzy]

God was able to ascend into heaven under his OWN power. The others were assumed and did so ONLY through the power of God.

[Syncro]

So you complain that some post negative comments about Catholicism and the extraBiblical adoration of Mary but you are fine with Catholicism claiming to be the only way to God?

And you say you respect other denominations?

I do not disrespect other Christian faiths

Is it not disrespect to belong to a belief system that says all that do not belong to it can not have salvation?

Psalms 119:113-115

I hate those who are double-minded, But I love Your law. You are my hiding place and my shield; I wait for Your word. Depart from me, evildoers, That I may observe the commandments of my God.

1 Kings 18:21

Isaiah 29:13

Then the Lord said, "Because this people draw near with their words And honor Me with their lip service, But they remove their hearts far from Me, And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote

¹⁴ Therefore once more I will astound these people
    with wonder upon wonder;
the wisdom of the wise will perish,
    the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish.”

Prepare to be astounded!Left behind:

Jesus, why did you not take me to your kingdom?

You did not see Me, you were looking at Mary.

[Syncro]

Read the text of the article so you can debate with knowledge of the context.

There is no Genesis 315 and what you attribute to Genesis 315 is not in the Bible.

[Syncro]

those of us who aren't right with God (via junk commentary), could be in a bad place with no time to ask forgiveness.

Turn you eyes upon Jesus. Then you won't be in that position.

[caww]

...<<<<”the supreme sacrifice of the Mass, the center of all Catholic adoration and worship is beyond their grasp”>>>>>>....

Oh we understand it quite clearly....it's not as though it's “hidden” as some would imagine it to be......

Most false teachings people think are inaccessible to any but the “initiated” are under a false impression they cannot be known,.... when in fact these are more times than not better known to those who aren't initiated.

It is pretty much standard for false religions,cults and the like to create 'an illusion' that those initiated/members "feel like" they're special and have something nobody else does, and this 'primarily' through some sort of mystical ritual or experience and practice of not available to the un-initiated.

The Supreme Sacrifice has already been accomplished and 'finished' at Calvary to completely atone for sin 'once' for all.....not in 'any' ritual practiced today. Period.

The catholic "mass" is a creation of the catholic church.... A “Christianization” of a pagan practice. ....

[Syncro]

Many in grave sin will go to Mary first, as Jesus is too frightening for them to approach.

Yeah, Jesus is really scary!

What with that gentle sprit and all that "come unto me all you who are burdened and heavy laden and I will give you rest."

The veneration of Mary is religion, Christianity is a relationship with God through His Son Jesus. Freely given.

There is no sin so grave that Jesus can't deal with it without the need for Mary to be the middle man.

Sad to see people directed to Mary instead of Jesus.