Posted on 03/20/2014 7:45:14 PM PDT by marshmallow
There you go again...
I know. That's why I quoted Cardinal Cajetan.
Why do you think the Eastern Orthodox accept 1 Maccabees as canonical?
Probably because it was in many manuscripts of the the Septuagint, which many of the Eastern Fathers regarded as inspired. However, there are also books in the Septuagint manuscripts that were never considered canonical Scripture by the Jews or the Church, for example, III and IV Maccabees. Just because a book was listed in the manuscripts did not mean it was regarded as canonical Scripture. It simply means that these books were read in the Church, which is like the pre-Tridentine view expressed by Cardinal Cajetan quoted above. The Eastern Orthodox Church accepts these books as being canonical in the sense that it uses them liturgically, but it does not use them as primary sources in the definition of dogmas.
Cordially,
“I know. That’s why I quoted Cardinal Cajetan.”
Guess what? His opinion doesn’t matter either. The issue was already decided before him.
“Probably because it was in many manuscripts of the the Septuagint, which many of the Eastern Fathers regarded as inspired.”
And?
No it wasn't. The issue wasn't definitively decided until Trent.
And?
And they were mistaken. The Septuigant is not an inspired translation, and the deutercanonicals were never part of the Hebrew canon.
Cordially,
“No it wasn’t. The issue wasn’t definitively decided until Trent.”
Actually, that’s false. The Council of Florence had already defined what books were inspired. It simply didn’t use the word “canon” or “canonical”.
“And they were mistaken.”
No, actually they were not - in any thing that they agreed upon with the Church.
“The Septuigant is not an inspired translation, and the deutercanonicals were never part of the Hebrew canon.”
There was, of course, no Hebrew “canon” until after Christ ascended when Jews had no authority to decide such a thing. All authority was in the hands of the Holy Spirit and the Church.
Florence did pass a decree on the canon with the same listing of books as Trent, in 1442, but it was not, from a Roman Catholic perspective an infallible decree. The first infallible decision, from a Roman Catholic perspective, was the Council of Trent.
There was, of course, no Hebrew “canon” until after Christ ascended when Jews had no authority to decide such a thing.
Have you not read what the Apostle Paul wrote?
Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? 2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.How could they be entrusted with the oracles of God and not know what they were?
And how then could Jesus before his ascension hold the Jewish people accountable for knowing what Scripture was without having a Roman Magesterium to tell them what it was?
"But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: ‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching."
And again,
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41 I do not receive glory from people. 42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. 43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.
Cordially,
“but it was not, from a Roman Catholic perspective an infallible decree.”
No infallible decree was needed.
“the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.”
Were. Not are.
“And how then could Jesus before his ascension hold the Jewish people accountable for knowing what Scripture was without having a Roman Magesterium to tell them what it was?”
Simple. He chose to cite those books commonly agreed upon (but He also relied on commonly agreed upon tradition such as Moses’ seat for instance). That does not mean there was a definitive canon yet.
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