Posted on 02/26/2014 9:49:13 AM PST by Dr. Thorne
Following are my notes on a sermon that I preached shortly after I was converted from the Catholic Church back in 1962. It was the first sermon that I preached. Introduction:
In this lesson I want to state some of the reasons I left the Catholic Church. I do not wish to state any of the personal experiences I had as result of leaving. I will mention, though, that I came from a large, devout Catholic family of twelve children. I attended Trinity High School in Louisville, Kentucky. At the time of my intense Scriptural study, I had two brothers who were enrolled in Catholic seminaries studying to be priests. I also want to state I did not leave the Catholic Church because of some evil that I had done or that was done to me. I left the Catholic Church because I came to believe that it was contrary to the Bible. This I will endeavor to show in this study.
(Excerpt) Read more at bible.ca ...
No problem.
And how do you figure 1 Cor 10:16 explains that it looks like bread, but the substance has changed?
See, Luther and Calvin and Zwingli and all those other “sola scriptura” reformation people only ever converted people who were already Christians. Their audiences ALREADY BELIEVED in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. But who converted the Gauls, the Rus, the Turks, the Germans, the Huns, the native Americans, the Philippines, the Chinese, the Koreans? Catholics. And the bible explicitly states that the early church converted by EXPLAINING scripture (Acts 8, for instance).
>> Where is the ‘mercy’ in making up something to explain a process ‘how’ that belongs to the un-revealed counsel of God. <<
There’s no process “how” in the doctrine of transubstantiation; there is only clarification of what “is” does and does not mean.
Your further problem is that when something is a difficult belief, you drop it.
Bible: “This IS the body of Christ”
Potential Convert: “No, it’s not; it’s just bread.”
Protestant: “Well, the body of Christ is IN there, too!”
BZZZZ!!!! That’s AGAINST the scripture. The scripture says, “IS.”
So where the Catholic explains the truth of the scripture, the Protestant changes the scripture into something easier to believe in.
I don't, but instead of the priest or the Pope, the Apostle Paul calls the turn.
As usual the Catholic church takes credit for the 'conversion' of anyone. That job is taken by the Holy Spirit. But the rooster will crow as he may.
There’s no process “how” in the doctrine of transubstantiation; there is only clarification of what “is” does and does not mean.
The priest changes the elements into the body and blood of Christ. That isn't a process? The bread and wine remain so until 'changed'. Process.
there is only clarification of what “is” does and does not mean.
Please.
No, the Catholic makes up a process to explain a mystery. The protestant in this case believes scripture. As for your example, potential converts don't receive the Lord's Supper. By the time they do, they get it. But the reference is always scripture.
It doesn't amaze me that some would use tradition to come up with the doctrine of *sacred tradition*.
Anything to impugn the God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired word of God.
If being God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired isn't enough to make it authoritative for you, then NOTHING is.
And if *sacred tradition* can trump Scripture any day of the week, then Satan has won his battle of *Did God REALLY say....?* hands down.
Prove it.
They certainly do.
A google search of prayers to Mary gives about 27,200,000 results (0.22 seconds)
I think it’s pretty clear that there’s not a Catholic who posted here who bothered to click on the link to read the entire story...
They are after all, not supposed to read things like this...
Consider it done, and thank you for championing reason when you have no dog in this fight.
By any reasonable definition of the word "pray" we do pray to Mary. Don't be afraid to admit it.
By way of example:
Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary,
that never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection,
implored your help or sought your intercession,
was left unaided.
Inspired with this confidence,
I fly to you, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother;
to you do I come, before you I stand, sinful and sorrowful.
O Mother of the Word Incarnate,
despise not my petitions,
but in your mercy hear and answer me.
Amen.
There are your words, my FRiend. I simply asked what part of John 6:44 & 6:65 was, "...loaded with Romanism". You responded that I should take my pick and I picked: Nothing.
"Your highjack of the subject at hand,"
Now, you claim this is a "highjack of the subject at hand." ??? Perhaps you want some nice reading lessons for "Special Pope Day"?
-John 6:53-59
Apparently, both Scripture and Christ's Church recognized the bread and wine to be the actual Body and Blood of our Lord.
Or you buy into an ethos that disregards the authority that Christ established and decide to become an authority unto yourself. Small wonder that we now have “Christian” churches falling over themselves to approve of Sodomy and condemn those who do not.
Right. By that logic we shouldn't need lawyers or judges either because everyone can clearly read the law for themselves.
Do you hire a lawyer to help with this?
Exodus 20:
And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
At what point in the mass do all consume the Living Water literally?
John 4:
10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.(KJV)
What is the name again of that San Francisco bishop who was giving communion out of church to homosexuals?
And yet, rather than that explanation, Catholics created 'transubstantiation'. Scripture doesn't say the 'How' of it, just that it is. Catholics go beyond scripture and make up a how.
Scripturally, both the bread and wine are received. Does the Catholic church still do that, or did they change that as well?
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