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Pope Responds to Rush Limbaugh
Catholic in the Ozarks ^ | December 16, 2013

Posted on 12/16/2013 3:41:05 PM PST by NYer

[CC-BY-SA-2.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0)] via Wikimedia Commons
Pope Francis
presidencia.gov.ar
If Rush Limbaugh were to say this Monday that his accusation of Marxism in the papacy provoked a response from the pope himself, he would be 100% right.  Pope Francis responded to the following question in his latest interview with Andrea Tornielli (Vatican Insider)...
TORNIELLI: Some of the passages in the “Evangelii Gaudium” attracted the criticism of ultraconservatives in the USA. As a Pope, what does it feel like to be called a “Marxist”? 
POPE FRANCIS: “The Marxist ideology is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended.”
The term "ultraconservatives in the USA" is umbrella speak for Rush Limbaugh and those who followed his lead in the right-wing media.  If you would like to see Limbaugh's monologue that led to this little exchange between "golden EIB microphone" and the Chair of Peter, I have linked to a video here in a previous article.

In Limbaugh's own words: "this is just pure Marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope."  Pope Francis responds in his own words: "The Marxist ideology is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended." 

There is it folks.  Marxism is wrong.  Period.  Now we shouldn't be surprised about this should we?  The popes have been railing against Marxism for 120 years now.  Why should this one be any different.  The Holy Father goes on, so as to show a little charity toward Mr. Limbaugh and gang.  "I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended."  He is not offended by the accusation.  Why? Because he has met many good (well intentioned) people in his life who are Marxists, so he doesn't view this as an insult.

Now that's pretty gracious.  I wish I could say I felt the same way when people call me a Marxist (and they do).  I tend to get a little upset when they do this, because not only is it untrue (I'm not a Marxist), but as an American, the very accusation seems rather "un-American" to me -- an insult to my nationality.  The pope is not burdened with the same nationality complex as I, so he doesn't take it in an offensive way.  Of course you're probably wondering why anyone would call me a Marxist in the first place.  I suppose they call me a Marxist for the same reason Rush Limbaugh said "this is just pure Marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope." 

They lack imagination, and they are uneducated on this matter.

Yep, I said it.  I just called Rush Limbaugh unimaginative and uneducated -- on this issue.  Here is why I said it, and I pointed this out in my previous article.  I am a Distributist, and Distributism is an economic model that comes directly from papal teaching, stretching back 120 years to Pope Leo XIII papal encyclical Rerum Novarum.  Multiple encyclicals have been written on the topic since then, and each one carried far more weight than Pope Francis' recent apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium.  So, you thought Pope Francis' words were politically charged? Wait till you read what previous popes have said, with more authority and weight of official Church teaching.  Here are just a few quotes...
"Hence by degrees it has come to pass that Working Men have been given over, isolated and defenseless, to the callousness of employers and the greed of unrestrained competition." -- Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, #3 
"On the one side there is the party which holds the power because it holds the wealth; which has in its grasp all labor and all trade; which manipulates for its own benefit and its own purposes all the sources of supply, and which is powerfully represented in the councils of the State itself. On the other side there is the needy and powerless multitude, sore and suffering, always ready for disturbance." -- Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, #47 
"Just as the unity of human society cannot be built upon “class” conflict, so the proper ordering of economic affairs cannot be left to the free play of rugged competition.  From this source, as from a polluted spring, have proceeded all the errors of the `individualistic’ school.  This school, forgetful or ignorant of the social and moral aspects of economic activities, regarded these as completely free and immune from any intervention by public authority, for they would have in the market place and in unregulated competition a principle of self-direction more suitable for guiding them than any created intellect which might intervene.  Free competition, however, though justified and quite useful within certain limits, cannot be an adequate controlling principle in economic affairs.  This has been abundantly proved by the consequences that have followed from the free rein given to these dangerous individualistic ideas." -- Pope Pius XI, Quadragesimo Anno, #88 
"Such a society ["a society of free work, of enterprise and of participation"] is not directed against the market, but demands that the market be appropriately controlled by the forces of society and by the State, so as to guarantee that the basic needs of the whole of society are satisfied." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #35 
"It is the task of the State to provide for the defense and preservation of common goods such as the natural and human environments, which cannot be safeguarded simply by market forces." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #40 
"There is a risk that a radical capitalistic ideology could spread which refuses even to consider these problems, in the a priori belief that any attempt to solve them is doomed to failure, and which blindly entrusts their solution to the free development of market forces." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #42 
"The Western countries… run the risk of seeing [the collapse of Communism] as a one-sided victory of their own economic system, and thereby failing to make necessary corrections in that system." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #56 
"Business management cannot concern itself only with the interests of the proprietors, but must also assume responsibility for all the other stakeholders who contribute to the life of the business: the workers, the clients, the suppliers of various elements of production, the community of reference." -- Pope Benedict XVI, Caritas in Veritate #40 
"In the face of unrelenting growth of global interdependence, there is a strongly felt need, even in the midst of a global recession, for a reform of the United Nations Organization, and likewise of economic institutions and international finance, so that the concept of the family of nations can acquire real teeth. One also senses the urgent need to find innovative ways of implementing the principle of responsibility to protect and of giving poorer nations an effective voice in shared decision-making. This seems necessary in order to arrive at a political, juridical and economic order which can increase and give direction to international cooperation for the development of all peoples in solidarity. To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need for a true world political authority." -- Pope Benedict XVI, Caritas in Veritate #67
When put into the context of previous papal teaching, (teaching that has far more weighty authority I might add, because these are papal encyclicals, not mere apostolic exhortations), it would seem that Pope Francis' remarks are quite mild in comparison.  This is papal teaching that goes back 120 years!  Are they all Marxists?  I suppose by Rush Limbaugh's criteria they might be.  In which case Catholic listeners of Rush might find themselves having to choose between the "doctor of democracy" and the Vicar of Christ.  Or maybe it's not that simple.  Maybe Rush is actually wrong about something, and if he is, well that just changes everything.

The truth is, Rush Limbaugh is not alone, and this article is not intended to pick on him exclusively.  There are many more conservative talk-radio show hosts out there, and a good number of them follow Rush's lead on stories.  This is added to a plethora of print media and Internet outlets that likewise share Limbaugh's opinion on a great many things.  Then of course there is the popular (and somewhat Leftist) mainstream news media. While these obviously don't agree with the "all-knowing, all-sensing, all-everything Maha Rushie," they do however share his view of Pope Francis as a liberal Marxist, but to them that's considered a positive thing.  I assert here that they are all wrong.  Why?  Because they are talking heads in the media who have never studied papal social teaching on economics before.  They've never bothered to research this, and what little investigation they might have done has been coloured by their own biases and limited world view.  So I'm going to simplify matters for all of them right now, and lay it out in plain and simple English for them to absorb.

The popes are not Marxists.  The popes are not socialists.  The popes are not fascists.  The popes are not Keynesians.  The popes are not Austrians.  The popes are not supply-siders.  The popes are not capitalists at all.  The popes are none of these things.  They have no economic model they follow.  Rather, they make the principles upon which economic models are built, and the only economic model built on papal teaching is distributism. 

In this loose sense we could say the popes are distributists, but we should keep in mind, the popes are not economic ideologues.  They leave such matters to those who can formulate such models.  Distributism comes from the popes.  The popes are not literally distributists.  Does that make sense?

Now the word distributism does not mean "re-distribution" as is the common misconception.  These are two completely different concepts.  Redistribution falls into the Keynesian model of economics, and is often a key component to other economic models as well, such as socialism and Marxism.  What we are talking about is taking money from one group of people and giving it to another.  While virtually all forms of government engage in this to some degree, that is not what is meant by "distributism."  Rather, what is meant by "distributism" is simply this.  The most just economic system is one in which productive property (small business, etc.) is the most widely distributed to the most people possible.  Distributism is about small family-run business.  In a distributist economy, small business is the boss.  It is the backbone of the economy. Distributists envision a world where the majority of commerce is exchanged through small business.  It's a world were nearly any man can "become his own boss."  Realising that some forms of business need to be much larger in order to function, Distributists call for the widespread creation of cooperative corporations, wherein the workers own a share (and a vote) in the management of a company.  This is the core of distributism, but it doesn't stop there.  There is much more in the way of trade guilds, licensing and small government based on subsidiarity.  Much of this will sound foreign to conservative talk-radio in America, and that's too bad, because there are a whole lot of "conservative" things to talk about here. 

I invite Rush and gang to do a little more homework.  Now that you've been graciously answered by the pope, Rush, you owe it to him to figure out what he's talking about.  I invite you to take a look at this Wikipedia article on distributism and then read a few articles on The Distributist Review.


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic
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To: editor-surveyor

>You’re the loose cannon on this thread, just look around.<

Another attack ... (yawn)


161 posted on 12/17/2013 12:58:58 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: boatbums

>Well said and it is remarkable how few people “get it”. In order for a true “Utopia” to come about, the sin nature of man must be utterly eliminated. Until that happens, all attempts at creating it will be futile.<

Worse than that - counterproductive, and often harmful. Hundreds of millions murdered by secular despots of the last century attempting to create their own utopias are a testament to this.


162 posted on 12/17/2013 1:43:37 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: ottbmare

Appreciate the description. But, Deprogram Liberalism’s post is to the point. Distributism wants it both ways, private ownership, govt. management of the private business through interdiction... ie. distributism is a form of fascism (govt. approved “private” businesses “allowed” to thrive) just as marxism is a collectivist fascism. It is all statist driven. Case of the Church, at least the potential exists for people of kinder hearts and spiritual belief to run things (but that has not proven to always be the case in the past— see Richelieu).


163 posted on 12/17/2013 2:36:33 PM PST by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: NYer

Yup.


164 posted on 12/17/2013 2:38:46 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: 353FMG

And you know— the chickens he had didn’t think he was very nice either (LOL). Conceptually reducing the “lesser” masses not of the aryan strain to chickens to be “dealt with”. A lovely simpleton of a man— what happens when you elevate ticket takers to high office.


165 posted on 12/17/2013 2:39:56 PM PST by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: trisham

Prayers for your family Trish ((((Hugs))))


166 posted on 12/17/2013 2:41:14 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: Salvation

Better to stay calm and off these threads till you feel better.(((((Hugs)))))


167 posted on 12/17/2013 2:52:08 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: fatima

Thank you, fatima. :)


168 posted on 12/17/2013 2:54:23 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer

It would be nice if these religious leaders that feel the need to pontificate on political or economic issues would be champions of freedom. If they truly desire less poverty, better health care, evangelism unhindered, or even a more educated population, work towards creating a limited government with maximum freedom. A more massive and oppressive nanny state, in whatever “ism” is trendy this week at your local seminary, will not improve the lives of the people one bit.

The benefits of liberty should be obvious in the history of the US, with its remarkable prosperity and quick rise to a global power. And as freedom has been restricted, and the state nationalizes industries, everybody suffers. Is education better than it was 50 years ago? Will health care be as good a decade from now? Do we have less poverty, or more religious freedom than we had 50 years ago?

What has bothered me about the pontiff’s clarifications on this topic, is that it can hardly be construed as a ringing endorsement for freedom. Liberty is a good thing - and its scriptural. If you really care about people and the Gospel, get people FREE!


169 posted on 12/17/2013 4:01:40 PM PST by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: trisham

I pray it all is resolved and there is no cancer.


170 posted on 12/17/2013 6:37:52 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: MDLION
Capitalism can’t be made into an idol which can’t be criticized. So if someone criticizes the excesses of capitalism, which Blessed John Paul II referred to as “cutthroat capitalism”, he or she is a Marxist? I think Rush hurt himself more with that comment than he realizes. There’s a century of papal words condemning Marxism and many Christians have given their lives in opposition to Marxism.

I agree. People sometimes have a tendency to idolize capitalism, and unrestrained capitalism is crony-ism, and the incestuous relationship we have now with fedgov/corporations is rotten to the core and destructive in many ways. Nothing to idolize.

171 posted on 12/17/2013 6:42:50 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Crusher138

Thank you.


172 posted on 12/17/2013 6:44:25 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: ottbmare
Thank you for describing distributism. Sounds good to me.

Distributism is not redistribution. Unfortunate name. It's really the opposite--it is based on the idea that the average guy should be his own boss, if possible, and that most of the economy should be dominated by small business. Control should be very local, not handed down from huge centralized government. Some of the ideas reflect what life was like in the US two hundred years ago. It's conservative in many ways. Homeschooling and lack of federal regulation are consistent with distributism. A lovely idea, though not one that will ever take place unless this country collapses altogether.

Well, then there's a good chance it can work again!

173 posted on 12/17/2013 7:38:55 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: editor-surveyor

Well said.


174 posted on 12/17/2013 7:41:25 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: fatima

The Pope didn’t respond to Rush.His name was never said in the interview.The Pope doesn’t even know who Rush is.Hey Rush every time you say the Pope’s name you lose a listener.


175 posted on 12/17/2013 7:52:50 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: Theo
Jesus spoke a LOT on the topic of money and finances.

Jesus didn't just speak "alot" on the topic of money and finances --- He spoke about it more than any other subject in the Bible.

That's just fact. Now that begs the question: Why did He speak about money more than any other topic?

176 posted on 12/17/2013 7:57:46 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: John S Mosby

A most excellent point and post. Distributism assumes the control of the economy by an “authority” with private ownership. Fascism defined.


177 posted on 12/17/2013 8:20:42 PM PST by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
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To: little jeremiah
>I agree. People sometimes have a tendency to idolize capitalism, and unrestrained capitalism is crony-ism, and the incestuous relationship we have now with fedgov/corporations is rotten to the core and destructive in many ways. Nothing to idolize.<

Wrong. There is no such thing as "unrestrained capitalism". There will always be regulations. Cronyism is a type of modern corporatism which is an offshoot of progressive-fascism. The closest thing to unrestrained capitalism was during the Roaring Twenties - the greatest decade of prosperity in the history of mankind (get the name?). Free market capitalism is the only economic system where everyone is afforded equal opportunity. It is the only system that provides for liberty. It is not the system that is the problem. Sinners are the problem. Collectivism attempts to limit the harm of sinners by limiting the economic freedom of the system. It doesn't work. Collectivism will never work (progressive-fascism is just another type of collectivism). There will always be sinners on earth as it is now. No economic system can eliminate the damage they do. But free market capitalism offers the most freedom in a world of sinners. It offers the most opportunity. To think that implementing the right collective economic system will eliminate the damage of sinners is naive. It is a belief that we can have utopia - a pipedream that Stalin, Hitler and dozens of other despots of the twentieth century have proven to be unattainable, and even detrimental, with the mass murder of hundreds of millions in the attempt to make it happen.

178 posted on 12/17/2013 8:49:04 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: ExpatGator

>A most excellent point and post. Distributism assumes the control of the economy by an “authority” with private ownership. Fascism defined.<

Yup.


179 posted on 12/17/2013 8:49:49 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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To: fatima

>The Pope didn’t respond to Rush.His name was never said in the interview.The Pope doesn’t even know who Rush is.Hey Rush every time you say the Pope’s name you lose a listener.<

Of course he didn’t - he didn’t have to. Have you never heard of “reading between the lines”? It is obvious that he was referring to Rush when he spoke of Marxists. Why didn’t you get it?


180 posted on 12/17/2013 8:57:18 PM PST by DeprogramLiberalism (<- a profile worth reading)
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