Posted on 07/26/2012 11:34:14 AM PDT by Teófilo
Make what personal?
See post 148.
Sounds like a personal jab to me.
You are free to believe what you believe but there is a line between belief and getting in people's faces and condemning them to hell.
There are Christians who are bent on telling non-Christians that they are doomed without Jesus.
Am I offended by Islam? Yes. Am I offended by Christianity? No. Just the “we're right and you're wrong” Christians who make every attempt under the sun to convert Jews to Christianity. And Thank G-d these attempts haven't been very successful.When a Jew abandons Judaism he/she has committed a terrible sin. At least Judaism doesn't claim to be the only truth. Ours is not the only way to G-d. All the righteous have a place in the World to Come.
So I gather you are offended not so much by what these people believe, but rather by the rude way in which they present their beliefs. That makes good sense.
FWIW, most of these people are at least equally rude when talking to other Christians, condemning them to hell for rather minor differences in doctrine.
My personal belief, and I hope you don't find it offensive, is that the vast majority of people will in the fullness of time be saved by Christ. I don't claim to have any idea how this will be accomplished, but I believe that only those who stubbornly refuse to accept the obvious truth when presented to them will remain eternally isolated from God.
IOW, it's their rejection of God, not His rejection of them, that dooms them to hell.
You mileage, of course, may vary.
You hit the nail on the head. The only thing that bothers me is the rude tactics that some people use.
I’m a convert to Judaism;the rest of my family is Christian.(Lutheran,to be exact).
I was baptized and raised as a Lutheran until my conversion in 2003.
I feel a stronger connection to G-d than I ever did before.
Tell that to the folks ringing my doorbell that it is, I say it is for all people
You are free to believe that but Jews do not and will not adhere to the Christian Bible,otherwise known as the New Testament.
It would be a horrendous mistake for a Jew to abandon Torah.
POWERSBOOTHEFAN wrote:
“I’m a convert to Judaism;the rest of my family is Christian.(Lutheran,to be exact).
I was baptized and raised as a Lutheran until my conversion in 2003.”
Interesting. I know a couple of people whose stories are very similar to yours. It is my observation - you can disagree, of course - that, in the case of the people I know, they were incompletely instructed to begin with. They did not realize that questions such as you have raised have been asked and answered many times, although, unfortunately, in languages other than in English: German, Norwegian, Danish (not much different from Norwegian), Swedish, Latin. Among Christians - real OT and NT believing Christians! - there is an enormous respect for the descendants of Abraham.
I myself took graduate level classes in Talmud and Rabbinic studies at a large midwestern state university. I took them out of simple respect for history, the people whose heritage we benefit from, and a desire to understand. I learned much.
But, in your case, for example, take the case of (Friedrich) Carl Paul Caspari, who born into a Jewish family in Germany, and later became a university professor in Norway (on this question, check the net). He became a Christian and went on to teach many future Lutheran - Norwegian! - pastors who came to America. He was utterly convinced that the OT Scriptures spoke of the Christ who was to come.
Take a breath. Read. Contemplate.
Well,there’s no going back to Christianity. Once a person converts to Judaism they are Jewish for life. And I have no desire to go back.
I made a commitment to Judaism and to the Jewish people and I can’t go back on that.
It saddens and troubles me that this professor left Judaism and abandoned the Torah.
There is nothing for me to contemplate.
Then later I heard the same number and story from a well-known Torah teacher from a very different kind of Torah school of thought.
It still agitates my mind.
That is NOT the ekklesia that Yah'shua was speaking about. The Roman "church" would prefer if everyone forgot history.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Do you consider yourself to be all of Judah?
That’s what it would take to make it personal.
What are you talking about?
I see. Well, it is a free country. You are entitled to your choices.
Of course, your statement, “Once a person converts to Judaism they are Jewish for life,” is nonsense. It does not comport to the world we, or anyone else, lives in or ever has lived in. Nor does it comport to what the OT Scriptures say. Whether you see that now or later is inconsequential. And, while it may sadden and trouble you, it did not sadden and trouble him, as his entire lifetime thereafter testifies. And, as to whether you or he is in a position of greater knowledge, I will admit that I don’t know you at all. Him I do. I doubt you are of greater knowledge. I doubt it severely ... and I doubt it again ... and again ... and again. And I doubt even more sincerely that he thought he was abandoning the Torah - which he knew better in Hebrew than in German, Latin, or Norwegian, none of which, I dare say, I think you know.
So, contemplate nothing, if you will. That is your choice.
It is not a choice I would make.
Good day to you, sir.
First of all,I’m a Ma’am and second,I never claimed to be an expert. I have a lot to learn,as all Jews do. It’s a lifetime learning process.
But you don’t understand Judaism. Once you become Jewish you will always be Jewish. There is nothing that can undo it. It’s not nonsense.
If you understood Judaism you would know that acceptance of Jesus is the abandonment of Torah. You would see that it is a sin and a grave mistake.
It doesn’t matter what he learned. He abandoned Judaism and the Torah when he accepted Jesus. This,according to Torah and G-d,is a sin. A very big sin.
You don’t understand this because you are not Jewish. You are not seeing it through a Jew’s eyes and as such you cannot make a judgement.
This would be akin to telling a Catholic that he or she is wrong in their beliefs,when it is not my place to tell Catholics anything about Catholicism. I would not blame them if they became angry and offended.
What do I have to contemplate? Going back to Christianity? It won’t happen. I made a committment to Judaism,Torah and my fellow Jews. I cannot turn my back on it.
My apologies for addressing you as “sir.”
As I said before, I know of a couple of cases very similar to yours ... one of which is a woman.
“If you understood Judaism ...” Ahhh, of course, I don’t. How could I? There is no way. So, whatever you say, you are the expert. Foolish me. How little I know, even compared to one who by her own admission “has a lot to learn.”
One caveat. The zeal of the new convert, while great, is often outweighed by his - or her! - lack of understanding of how much others may know. I am sure, though, in your case this is not true. I am bested, and will leave the field of battle to you, the clear victor.
Rest comfortably this night in your superior knowledge.
On the other hand: “For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20)
But, on still another hand, who is Jesus to say anything of the kind, even though many called Him the Christ? Surely you know better.
The usual response to the who-is-jew question is one born to a Jewish mother or converted according to halacha.
But there is a deeper answer. A Jew is one with a Jewish soul, regardless of circumstances. Esau leapt in the womb when his mother neared a place of idol worship. Jacob leapt near a House of Study. The Jewish soul cannot comprehend and is even repulsed by the lust for idol worship that Esau can’t resist.
This statement manifests one neither understands Christianity nor conversion.
Nobody is able to convert to Christianity on their own. If they do, it isn't Christianity. Even Jesus Christ Himself is unable to convert a human to Christianity. Only one person is empowered to convert an unbeliever to a believer and that is God the Holy Spirit. God the Father elects, God the Son provides the Sacrifice and Word, and God the Holy Spirit regenerates the human spirit in the new man.
Once God the Holy Spirit regenerates the human spirit, the believer becomes Christian with everlasting life, a member of His Royal Family.
Even if a Christian falls away from faith, and rejects the Son later, in rebellion to God's Plan, this doesn't remove him from that family any more than divorcing oneself from one's parents removes one's parents could remove one's genetic familial ties.
It might place one out of fellowship with God, but God still indwells the believer, not by the volition of the believer, but by the volition of God, also known as His Sovereignty.
The stories and academic elaborations of the Law by the Midrash do not trump His Word, though they may provide academic study. It provides academic analysis of His Word, but fails to provide education or a method of thinking provided by God. The Torah and the New Testament are consistent and parts of His Word. Both are true. Both are provided for us to think through faith in Him.
For guidance on who is a true Jew, study Romans (Chapter 2) with emphasis on the significance of circumcision.
For guidance on why Israel is blind to Christ, study Romans, Chapter 11:25-36, although it was scribed by the Apostle to the Gentiles.
No one has or should ask Jews to abandon the Torah, it is a fundamental component of the Christian Bible. Jesus reinforced that in his teachings
On the other hand, the promised “Messiah” of the Old Testament (including the books of the Torah) to non Jews was talking about the birth of Christ and his time on earth. If you do not believe him then that is your right and you are awaiting yet another Messiah to appear.
This battle of semantics and terminology prove nothing other than trying to parse who is right or wrong, and I will not go there with you or anyone. This is a journey each of us must take, and I will not tell another what path they must follow.
Whether Torah, New or Old testament God tells all of us Judgement is his, not ours. I will stand on that and you have no right nor does anyone to judge another on their faith and decisions.
Believe what YOU want and leave others to theirs
Err... to us Christians the Bible is not a meaningless book. But if you want to believe that it’s your choice. How’s the Koran in comparison? I say it is rot. Apologies if that hurts...
Read the article instead of jumping to any conclusion based on the title. The conclusions jumped to in your post are wrong.
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