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1 posted on 07/04/2012 7:38:36 PM PDT by Gamecock
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To: Gamecock
"John Adams, America's second president, agreed with this sentiment and issued this pointed charge: 'Let not Geneva be forgotten or despised. Religious liberty owes it much respect."
2 posted on 07/04/2012 7:39:31 PM PDT by Gamecock (I worked out with a dumbbell yesterday and I feel vigorous!)
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To: Gamecock

Calvinism has turned into the “new” version of the Catholic Church.

They have become that which they protested against.

What do I mean?

They have abandoned Sola Scriptura for the new doctrine of Calvinism.

If it can’t be learned, proved, and taught from the bible, it should not belong in a Christian church. 5 point Calvinism fits into that. It has become a doctrine taught outside of the bible, with a few weak proof-texts taken out of context, and not using the whole council of scripture.

It’s a sad day for Christendom when people are more quick to defend Calvin than Christ.


4 posted on 07/04/2012 7:44:20 PM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: Gamecock

Americans should learn about Reformation-era Europe.

There was so much going on in Europe during the few hundred years prior to America’s founding that really is key to understanding a little about what was going on in the minds of those who really “started” America.

La Rochelle, New Rochelle, etc.

Reformation-era Europe is eye-popping history that for Americans today, comfortably and dispassionately looking back, is chock-full of lessons that we need.


5 posted on 07/04/2012 8:10:26 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: Gamecock

John Calvin was an evil tyrant. Were he alive in Geneva today, it would be considered on par with hellholes like North Korea.


7 posted on 07/04/2012 8:16:21 PM PDT by balch3
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To: Gamecock

“The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox’s gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again.”—C. H. Spurgeon


12 posted on 07/04/2012 8:40:50 PM PDT by Ottofire (Philippians 1:21: For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.)
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To: Gamecock

The Catholic Church was established in Florida decades and decades before the Pilgrims came to America.


17 posted on 07/04/2012 9:09:31 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Gamecock

bookmark.


34 posted on 07/05/2012 12:25:42 AM PDT by dadfly
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To: Gamecock
I don't agree with this reformer from Geneva was the father of modern liberty as well as the intellectual founding father of America, -- that's hyperbole. Yes, Calvin's revolt against rulers (perhaps in tune with Swiss concepts) had an impact on the French and American revolutions, but the father or founding father? No.

Also, Religious liberty owes it much respect is false -- Geneva was as merciless in rooting out those who didn't follow it's state religion as Lutherans or Catholics were.

if we talk about religious liberty, later Anglicanism has a higher position, but only from the 1800s.

Rather, I would put the concept of religious liberty to the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth (and no, this was not because the Poles were Catholics) which had religious liberty for Catholics, Orthodox, Jews, Lutherans, Muslims, Armenian Orthodox, Unitarians and Calvinists too --> the Calvinists did compromise their position by supporting the invading Swedes during the Potop. This resulted in a sharp decline of Calvinism after the Swedes were kicked out -- not due to government pressure so much as people leaving a "foreign influence". Lutheranism wasn't seen as supporting foreigners so much either

Anyway, I digress -- Calvinism was not associated with civil liberty in the 1700s, neither was Catholicism or Orthodoxy or Lutheranism or Anglicanism. Mennonites yes, but they weren't associated with any nation state.

36 posted on 07/05/2012 1:25:37 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Gamecock; BereanBrain
They have abandoned Sola Scriptura for the new doctrine of Calvinism.

incorrect. After the reformation, Calvin, Zwingli and Luther realised that the way of let's call it "pure ss" or anyone picking up a Bible, reading a verse or two and proclaiming a new division, was wrong

They had a council to have a fixed set of beliefs

The Calvinists stick to the tenets of the faith as encapsulated in the Nicene Creed. No innovations to that like, sorry, Oneness Pentecostalism or Jehovah's Witnesses etc.

Five-point Calvinism seeks to explain the Bible, not replace it -- hence the PCUSA's proclaiming of gay-marriages is wrong because it subverts scripture. But this does not mean that the Calvinists have used the 5points to replace scripture but rather complement

I don't agree with them, but I've not seen a Calvinist do that (replacing)

37 posted on 07/05/2012 1:29:53 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Gamecock
"Scholars both critical and sympathetic of the life and theology of Calvin agree on one thing: that this reformer from Geneva was the father of modern liberty as well as the intellectual founding father of America," he said.

That's absurd. John Calvin established the first modern totalitarian society in Geneva. He was also the godfather of modern materialism. Though, I guess he could be considered the father of "modern liberty," the ideological, dirigist variety where a small group determines what is liberty for the masses living under their edicts.
60 posted on 07/05/2012 11:26:41 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: Gamecock

I have long said that Martin Luther was one of the founders.

The reason is there are parallels between the political climate and the religious sphere.

As far as I understand it, which probably isn’t that far, under classical Catholicism, one HAD to go to the Church for salvation. Commoners we banned from owning the bible. Redemption and indulgences were granted by the church.

Protestantism threw that out. It emphasized a man having a DIRECT relationship with God.

The political parallels are that in a Monarchy, one looks to the King. One is ALWAYS subject to and favored or disfavored by the King. One never solves problems by themselves, they solve problems with the approval and agreement of the King.

In our Republic, which is rapidly dissolving into chaos, it was originally hoped that we would have SELF GOVERNMENT!!!

SELF GOVERNMENT!!!

It is NOT YOUR JOB to govern someone else!
It is SOLELY YOUR JOB to govern yourself!!

Now I hope no Catholics take exception to what I said, because to me it’s history, but doesn’t reflect bad on anyones faith now.


65 posted on 07/06/2012 1:27:05 AM PDT by djf ("There are more old drunkards than old doctors." - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Gamecock
John Calvin was America’s ’Founding Father’

lol

139 posted on 07/12/2012 2:55:22 AM PDT by Hacksaw (If I had a son, he'd look like George Zimmerman.)
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To: Gamecock; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; boatbums; CynicalBear; daniel1212; dragonblustar; Dutchboy88; ...

A good reminder of where our heritage actually lies.


161 posted on 09/07/2016 3:46:25 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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