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To: HarleyD

HarleyD:

Lets be clear about what Pelegians theory is. It is that Man can, without God’s Grace, come to know God and thus become justified. In other words, Man could come to Know God and follow him thru unaided human power. It is in this context that Pelagius and his Doctrine was rejected. This view is Rejected by the Catholic Church and has been since the 5th century. Man can only have Faith because of God’s Grace and Man can only live the Theological virtures of Faith, Hope and Love, because of God’s Grace.

The Catholic position of Justification rejects any notion that justication comes about through and inwardness or merely disposition but also objects to the mere performance of a physical act without and inward disposition to Faith, Hope and Love. What is necessary for salvation is a faith that represents itself externally through acts of Love and internally through Faith.

St. Augustine believed in Infused or Imparted Grace for Justification, hence is strong statements on Baptism versus Pelagius and his followers. In fact, St. Augustine stressed Baptism as the Sacrament of Grace as the starting point of Justification to such a degree against Pelagius [The Doctrine of Original Sin was also more cleary developed because of the Pelagius Controvery] that Pelagius posed the question as the fate of unbaptized Infants. It is in the context of that discussion that St. Augustine “Proposed” Limbo. Now, note that Limbo was a Theological theory that was proposed to Pelagius and his followers question regarding the fate of unbaptized infants and because it was St. Augustine’s theory, it was taught, not as Dogma/Doctrine, but a Theological Theory even until the time I was a kid.

It is still a plausible theory but one that does not seem to the the predominate one in Catholic Theology today. In fact, the Catechism issued in 1992 seems to allow for the possibility but tends to rest on Hope that God in His Mercy will Save those infants who died without Baptism [CCC paragraph 1261]


290 posted on 06/16/2012 9:30:07 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564
Lets be clear about what Pelegians theory is. It is that Man can, without God’s Grace, come to know God and thus become justified.

Below is an decent illustration between the various views (by an Arminian-not a Calvinist). I normally don't like illustrations as they are difficult to evaluate as they lack scripture (I'm a sola scriptura type of guy). But I think it's fair and relatively unslanted.

In the first four cases man must do something. Try as they might, there is not much difference from the Roman Catholic position and the Arminian position. I would argue that the condition of man is meaningless (whether he's alive but unable to respond or dead). It is the method by which God saves that is most important. In the first four man must do something (although the author takes pains as to say this isn't so). Calvin's interpretation is that man is totally dead and absolutely unable to respond to God. God must reach out and yank him into the boat.

I bring this up because this is the conclusion Augustine came to late in his life and he credits the early church father Cyprian as helping him come to this understanding. As Augustine stated:

This view from Augustine was very late in life and one of his final understandings. It was inspired by the well respected Church father Cyprian. And it is precisely the view of Calvin. What's more, NO ONE can explain why God hardens the hearts of man EXCEPT for Calvin and Augustine. Therefore, their view must be correct.
297 posted on 06/17/2012 4:44:43 AM PDT by HarleyD
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