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To: CTrent1564
Lets be clear about what Pelegians theory is. It is that Man can, without God’s Grace, come to know God and thus become justified.

Below is an decent illustration between the various views (by an Arminian-not a Calvinist). I normally don't like illustrations as they are difficult to evaluate as they lack scripture (I'm a sola scriptura type of guy). But I think it's fair and relatively unslanted.

In the first four cases man must do something. Try as they might, there is not much difference from the Roman Catholic position and the Arminian position. I would argue that the condition of man is meaningless (whether he's alive but unable to respond or dead). It is the method by which God saves that is most important. In the first four man must do something (although the author takes pains as to say this isn't so). Calvin's interpretation is that man is totally dead and absolutely unable to respond to God. God must reach out and yank him into the boat.

I bring this up because this is the conclusion Augustine came to late in his life and he credits the early church father Cyprian as helping him come to this understanding. As Augustine stated:

This view from Augustine was very late in life and one of his final understandings. It was inspired by the well respected Church father Cyprian. And it is precisely the view of Calvin. What's more, NO ONE can explain why God hardens the hearts of man EXCEPT for Calvin and Augustine. Therefore, their view must be correct.
297 posted on 06/17/2012 4:44:43 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

HarleyD:

Nobody is rejecting that it is God’s Grace that saves. That is not the issue. Nowhere does St. Augustine reject Free will and if you are pitting works against Grace, then Grace wins because Grace is the cause of both faith and works of charity.

I agree the Catholic and Orthodox position is accurately stated and is synergism, i.e. man cooperates with Gods Grace and Gods Grace empowers and enlights inner mans will and actions to live out the theological virtures of faith, hope and love.

I agree the Calvinist position is monogersim and thus is different than the Catholic and Orthodox Position and it is also different from the Arminianism position found in other Protestant Doctrines [Methodist and Wesly, most Baptist would be here and Most Anglicans and even some Lutherans].

So the only issue I take with your post is the notion that St. Augustine was a monergist. I think the corpus of his work indicates he was a synergist and strongly believed in the Sacraments as the means of God’s Grace that inabled man to live out the Christian virtures of Faith, Hope and Love.

What St. Augustine was investigating is How God’s Election, Grace and Free will are all reconciled. I think ultimately that is one of those mysteries that God did not reveal definitively to the Church thus on this side of the heaven will never be fully understood so it as never been Dogmatized by the Catholic Church nor the Eastern Orthodox Church and was never Defined in a Council when Rome and the Eastern Orthodox were in full communion before the split in 1054 between Rome and Constantionopile.


302 posted on 06/17/2012 8:08:40 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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