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The Truth About Mormon Myths [Mormon Bigfoot, White Horse Prophesy, & Nephites alive 2,000+ years]
Mormonlife.com ^ | May 11, 2011 | Kate Ensign-Lewis

Posted on 12/30/2011 3:56:31 PM PST by Colofornian

It has been said that Mormons have an “exceedingly fine sense of rumor.” We certainly love a good story—after all, can’t we all admit to telling a tale we thought was good, even if we admitted we weren’t 100 percent sure it was true? In the spirit of acting under (more) perfect knowledge, and still appreciating the quality of a good story, the following is an exploration of the truth behind some of the more common or interesting Mormon legends.

*The following is an excerpt of "The Truth About Mormon Myths." To read the full article, see the LDS Living magazine May/June 2011 issue.

I can remember when I heard my very first Mormon myth. I was 8 years old, and one of my older sisters came to me and said, “Guess what? Steve Martin is a Mormon!”

She had heard from our cousins in Las Vegas about how he had gone on David Letterman, and when asked about Mormonism, replied, “That’s a very private part of my life right now.” It seemed legit enough to me. I started telling everyone in my small sphere— which was basically my friends and my Valiant class—that the star of Father of the Bride was LDS.

I don’t remember when I started to doubt the story, but years later I learned that the myth had started when a Mormon Tabernacle Choir member’s son had written home saying he had baptized Steve Martin. Only after this excited choir member had told his friends did he realize he had misunderstood—it wasn’t that Steve Martin. By then the story had spread like feathers in the wind.

“Storytelling is universal to the human species—there’s no tribe, no country anywhere that doesn’t do it,” says Eric Eliason, professor of folklore at Brigham Young University. But, he adds, “I can’t help but wonder if there’s something fundamentally oral and face-to-face about the Mormon experience.”

We Mormons go from home to home, teaching the message of our Church. We believe deeply in the importance of teaching and bearing testimony to one another. And all this is founded upon stories that affirm our faith—many of which combine the divine with everyday experience.

“We have, starting with the First Vision, a heritage of supernatural stories—stories that go beyond the everyday,” says Mike Hunter, Mormon Studies librarian at BYU and author of the book Mormon Myth-allaneous. “In sacrament meeting and in our Sunday School lessons, we like to share stories that show God has a hand in what’s going on in our lives. So we don’t find these stories necessarily incredible or unbelievable, simply because every day of our lives we have stories of people who feel they have had divine intervention in their lives. We’re going to listen to it and maybe take it seriously.”

Mormon Folklore—True or False?

Folklorists look for the principle in a story—what it says about the culture at large and how that culture uses stories to deal with life. “Mormon folklore consists of a vibrant body of oral narratives which reflect the dominant values and attitudes . . . of Church members,” says Bert Wilson, one of the foremost Mormon folklorists. “So it’s not enough just to find out if something is true or not.”

In fact, many stories aren’t so easily classified as “true” or “false.” And there’s always a debate in engaging in an exercise of “debunking” folklore: if these stories uplift and teach people, is it constructive or even fair to prove them true or false? “Sometimes it really does matter [to know if a story is true],” says Eliason, “but sometimes it doesn’t. If you become too cynical, you maybe will hear a story about the Three Nephites that’s absolutely true and is going to change your life, and you don’t believe it.” “The harm is if you’re leaning on these stories for your faith. Then, when the story suddenly crumbles, you fall with it,” adds Hunter.

In the end, all stories of folklore have value of their own, true or not. But we still think it’s of use to educate you. Stories can still uplift and teach if they’re known to be false, and any potential danger in believing their truth can be avoided. So, the following is a quick exploration of some of our culture’s favorite stories, the “kernels of truth” and principles behind them, and, where possible, the evidence to support or disprove them. Now, for a foray through the funhouse of Mormon myths.

Church Leaders

Church Leader Sits Next to Mick Jagger

Have you heard the one about the Church leader who met Mick Jagger on a plane and proceeded to have a lengthy conversation about morality and the Church? In this story, Mick Jagger says he once took the missionary discussions, indicates that his music is “calculated to drive kids to sex,” and loudly calls the leader a liar for preaching about the truthfulness of the gospel. The leader then chastises Mick for his own lies, bears testimony of the gospel, and calls him to repentance.

It’s all true. As related in an address given by Elder Gene R. Cook to Rick’s College in 1988 (starting at a time stamp of 23:51 on the audio of the talk, to be exact), the story illustrates both a recognition of the Church by the famous and the unwavering conviction of Church leaders to the truth, even in the most uncomfortable of situations.

Youth Were Generals in the War of Heaven

A favorite quote of those speaking to youth, attributed to President Boyd K. Packer or one of the other Brethren, goes something like this: “You were generals in the War in Heaven, and one day when you are in the spirit world, you will be enthralled by those you are associated with. . . . Someone will turn to you and ask you which of the prophets’ time did you live in? And when you say ‘Gordon B. Hinkley,’ a hush will fall over every hall and corridor in Heaven, and all in attendance will bow at your presence.”

In regards to this statement, President Packer has said, “I did not make that statement. I do not believe that statement. The statement, on occasion, has been attributed to others of the First Presidency and the Twelve. None of the Brethren made that statement.”

Myths of the Ancient World

Bigfoot is Cain

There may be more to fear from Bigfoot than the fact that he’s big and hairy: some say that the legendary North American woodland ape is Cain.

Though there’s no way to prove or disprove this particular tale, knowing the source of the legend can shed some light on why this conclusion has been made. Abraham Smoot recorded the following after early Church Apostle David W. Patten described an encounter he had with Cain in 1835:

As I was riding along the road on my mule I suddenly noticed a very strange person walking beside me. . . . His head was about even with my shoulders as I sat in my saddle. He wore no clothing, but was covered with hair. His skin was very dark. I asked him where he dwelt and he replied that he had no home, that he was a wanderer in the earth and traveled to and fro. He said he was a very miserable creature, . . . and his mission was to destroy the souls of men.

This entry was included in Spencer W. Kimball’s The Miracle of Forgiveness, which was originally published in 1969. In 1980, sightings of the legendary Bigfoot were reported in South Weber, Utah. Members made connection with these sightings to Patten’s story of Cain, effectively beginning the tale. Reeve believes Mormons use this story to connect an unexplainable event with proof that the Saints are doing a good job. “When Satan sends Cain against Mormons, . . . they think, ‘we must be on the right path, or Satan wouldn’t bother sending in his most evil hordes against us.’”

The Three Nephites

Who among us hasn’t enjoyed hearing a story about mysterious men blessing the life of another person? A group of friends, out in the middle of nowhere, finds one of their group in serious medical trouble. Two men walk up and offer a blessing, then disappear. A lone traveler approaches a group and asks for food; after giving the food, he imparts wisdom, blesses the group, and disappears. Brigham Young reportedly enjoyed telling his family about an experience he had while serving in Liverpool; he interviewed one of the Nephites—an old man with a long, gray beard, who spoke encouragement to him. The stories of the Nephites tell about help and support in times of personal need.

Obviously the exploits of the Three Nephites have become the stuff of legend. In fact, Bert Wilson says he has over 1,500 stories about these ancient disciples—many of which are simply older stories updated to modern needs. For instance, a wagon breaks down on the way to general conference, and a mysterious man steps into fix the axle; nowadays, it’s a car. “It’s the same story, but it’s adapted to different times,” Wilson says. “As long as people have problems that they need help solving, you’re likely going to have Nephite stories.”

Prophecies

The White Horse Prophecy

“The constitution will hang by a thread.” We’ve all heard this phrase, which is contained in the White Horse prophecy—a prophecy attributed to Joseph Smith about how the people of the Rocky Mountains (or, the Church members) will save the Constitution, among other things.

The problem? This prophecy was written over 50 years after the Prophet’s death. Scholars have identified the “prophecy” as having been a pieced-together embellishment on statements the Prophet Joseph made on several different occasions, as written by a man named Edwin Rushton. It has been officially refuted by the Church on several occasions.

One of the first (and most impressive) examples of this was with Elder Joseph Fielding Smith Jr.’s general conference talk in October 1918:

In my travels in the stakes of Zion, my attention has been called, on a number of occasions, to a purported revelation . . . supposed to have been received by President Smith . . . in regard to events of great importance dealing with the nations of the earth and the Latter-day Saints. Many things in that purported vision, or revelation, are absurd. . . . When a revelation comes for the guidance of this people, you may be sure that it will not be presented in some mysterious manner contrary to the order of the Church. It will go forth in such form that the people will understand that it comes from those who are in authority.

President Joseph F. Smith, who spoke after his son at that conference, re-emphasized his son’s remarks by calling the content of the prophecy “trash.” He said, “It is simply false. That is all there is to it.” The Church, in 2010, once again re-emphasized this position with two separate official statements. To be fair, several reliable sources (including Brigham Young) did report hearing the Prophet say something about the Constitution hanging by a thread. “It’s unfortunate that that piece has to be always connected with the White Horse Prophecy—as if that’s where that comes from,” says Mike Hunter. “But actually, it doesn’t come from that; the White Horse Prophecy took that, and a lot of other things, and blended them together.”

Say What Is Truth

So there you have it. A wealth of popular stories with evidence to support or refute them. But, after learning some stories are not true, is there still something stories of folklore might teach us?

“They’re all true, of course, depending on how you look at them,” says Wilson. “They do things for the group. It all depends on who tells them and for what reason.”

“I haven’t found anywhere where Jesus Himself makes clear whether the parables are true,” says Eliason. “I think we assume that they are stories—that there wasn’t necessarily an actual Samaritan.

But He doesn’t say, which I think might be telling us something— that that’s not what’s important about them, whether or not they actually happened. I think when we hear Mormon folklore, we should ask, ‘Is the important thing about this story whether or not it was historically accurate, or is the important thing about it what it tells us about ourselves, our culture, and our values?’”

So even if those stories about mysterious appearances from the Three Nephites or famous statements didn’t actually happen, they can still reveal a deeper principle. And they’re certainly still fun to hear.


TOPICS: Humor; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: inman; lds; mormon; myths; whitehorseprophesy
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Well, lookie here: This made the #4 "Editor's Pick" article of the year for this Mormon publication/Web site:
LDS Living's Top 10 for 2011: No. 4

From the article: There may be more to fear from Bigfoot than the fact that he’s big and hairy: some say that the legendary North American woodland ape is Cain. Though there’s no way to prove or disprove this particular tale, knowing the source of the legend can shed some light on why this conclusion has been made. Abraham Smoot recorded the following after early Church Apostle David W. Patten described an encounter he had with Cain in 1835: As I was riding along the road on my mule I suddenly noticed a very strange person walking beside me. . . . His head was about even with my shoulders as I sat in my saddle. He wore no clothing, but was covered with hair. His skin was very dark. I asked him where he dwelt and he replied that he had no home, that he was a wanderer in the earth and traveled to and fro. He said he was a very miserable creature, . . . and his mission was to destroy the souls of men. This entry was included in Spencer W. Kimball’s The Miracle of Forgiveness, which was originally published in 1969. In 1980, sightings of the legendary Bigfoot were reported in South Weber, Utah. Members made connection with these sightings to Patten’s story of Cain, effectively beginning the tale. Reeve believes Mormons use this story to connect an unexplainable event with proof that the Saints are doing a good job. “When Satan sends Cain against Mormons, . . . they think, ‘we must be on the right path, or Satan wouldn’t bother sending in his most evil hordes against us.’”

So a Mormon "prophet" -- Spencer W. Kimball -- writes about the Biblical character Cain being a North American "bigfoot" how many thousands of years later?

From the article: Obviously the exploits of the Three Nephites have become the stuff of legend. In fact, Bert Wilson says he has over 1,500 stories about these ancient disciples...

Ya gotta understand this one: According to the Book of Mormon (3 Nephi, 28, ch. 28), a book given scriptural status by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Jesus Christ appeared to the inhabitants of the western hemisphere immediately following his death and resurrection in Palestine and promised three of his New World believers that they would never taste of death. The following stories are typical of the numerous accounts recorded by faithful Mormons of appearances by one or more of these three deathless saints, known as "The Three Nephites."
Source: The Three Nephites

This Web site then goes on to recount some of those Mormon tall tales. So these 2,000+ yr old Nephite disciples are apparently only outlived in Mormondom by Cain the Bigfoot!

1 posted on 12/30/2011 3:56:45 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: All
From the article: "The only accounts of the alleged White Horse prophecy were provided second hand, years after Joseph Smith died and can't be corroborated with other sources," said Scott Gordon, the president of FAIR. " For many people it is a faith-promoting rumor that been around for a long time -- it's a rumor that never dies." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1847116/posts From the article: It has been officially refuted by the Church on several occasions.

Well actually, the White Horse Prophesy was repeated again and again at General Conferences up through the early 1960s!

It has been officially refuted by the Church on several occasions. One of the first (and most impressive) examples of this was with Elder Joseph Fielding Smith Jr.’s general conference talk in October 1918: In my travels in the stakes of Zion, my attention has been called, on a number of occasions, to a purported revelation . . . supposed to have been received by President Smith . . . in regard to events of great importance dealing with the nations of the earth and the Latter-day Saints. Many things in that purported vision, or revelation, are absurd. . . . When a revelation comes for the guidance of this people, you may be sure that it will not be presented in some mysterious manner contrary to the order of the Church. It will go forth in such form that the people will understand that it comes from those who are in authority. President Joseph F. Smith, who spoke after his son at that conference, re-emphasized his son’s remarks by calling the content of the prophecy “trash.” He said, “It is simply false. That is all there is to it.” The Church, in 2010, once again re-emphasized this position with two separate official statements. To be fair, several reliable sources (including Brigham Young) did report hearing the Prophet say something about the Constitution hanging by a thread.

Well, who are we to believe? This article claims that Joseph Fielding Smith called the White Horse pophesy "absurd" -- other Mormons have said that the sixth president, Joseph F. Smith, called the prophecy "ridiculous." While he may have done so, the 1912 LDS Conference Report & that LDS "prophet's" book says exactly otherwise. (So did the Trib reporter get it wrong; or was the LDS church spokesperson lying?)

Joseph F. Smith, sixth president of the LDS Church, wrote in Gospel Doctrine, p. 403--originally cited, I believe in 10/1912 Conference Report, p. 11:

Now, these are the commandments of God, the principles contained in these commandments of the great Eternal are the principles that underly the Constitution of our country, and all just laws. Joseph Smith, the prophet, was inspired to affirm and ratify this truth, and he further predicted that the time would come, when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints, above all other people in the world, would come to the rescue of that great and glorious palladium of our liberty.

The 'White Horse Prophesy' by LDS so-called "prophet" Joseph Smith: “We shall build the Zion of the Lord in peace untill the servants of that Lord shall begin to lay the foundation of a great and high watch Tower and then shall they begin to say within themselves, what need hath my Lord of this tower seeing this is a time of peace &c. Then the Enemy shall come as a thief in the night and scatter the servants abroad. When the seed of these 12 Olive trees are scattered abroad they will wake up the Nations of the whole Earth. Even this Nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff up[on] which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction.” (The Historians Corner, BYU Studies, Vol. 19, No. 3, p. 391-392)

From the article: To be fair, several reliable sources (including Brigham Young) did report hearing the Prophet say something about the Constitution hanging by a thread.

To be "fair?" Ya mean, to be partially forthcoming and partially truthful about Lds coverage of this "prophesy" -- don't you?

LDS "prophets" from Brigham Young (commented on it as early as 1854) to Ezra Taft Benson (commented on it in 1975) all believed the "White Horse prophesy" to be a future American reality. And many LDS general authorities and even a BYU president repeatedly commented on it.

* Two comments by LDS general authorities (one by a "prophet" and another by an "apostle" are especially interesting for their religious-political overtones):

* John Taylor was with Joseph Smith when he died -- surviving a wound -- and went on to become an LDS "prophet": “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto… [so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862)

* LDS "apostle" Orson Hyde: “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53)

So, don't you all look forward to when this LDS apostle's and "prophets'" extended "prophesies" will come into fruition? Why, supposedly "Mormonism will rule every nation" because they will be our "religious...and political" saviors!

2 posted on 12/30/2011 3:57:54 PM PST by Colofornian (Martyrs don't die in shootouts! Sacrificial lambs aren't armed! J. Smith fired 2 weapons as he died)
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To: Colofornian
It has been said that Mormons have an “exceedingly fine sense of rumor.” Who says that?
3 posted on 12/30/2011 4:14:26 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: svcw

Other cultists.


4 posted on 12/30/2011 4:16:59 PM PST by CainConservative ( Newt/Rubio 2012 with Cain, Bolton, Santorum, Perry, Watts, Duncan, & Bachmann in Newt's Cabinet)
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To: Colofornian

Giving heed to fables - that Joseph Smith was one wild and crazy guy - and false prophet.


5 posted on 12/30/2011 4:18:25 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Colofornian

Giving heed to fables - that Joseph Smith was one wild and crazy guy - and false prophet.


6 posted on 12/30/2011 4:19:06 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Colofornian
I heard all of these growing up in Utah.

There's one about an evil sherriff in Logan who threatened to burn down the temple....the Temple president found it guarded by "Stripling warriors" when he returned in the morning to open up.

There was one about a farmer hitting something while plowing in preston Idaho...Bones. They started moving together and growing flesh before his eyes until it was a resurrected young girl who tells him she was a pioneer that died long ago and her father blessed her grave with the "priesthood" that she would remain there unmolested until her resurrection.

I could go on and on, Utah is loaded with this crap.

7 posted on 12/30/2011 4:28:37 PM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: Colofornian
So these 2,000+ yr old Nephite disciples are apparently only outlived in Mormondom by Cain the Bigfoot!


8 posted on 12/30/2011 4:31:32 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Colofornian

It’s that whole American-Indian Israelite thing that has me incredulous.


9 posted on 12/30/2011 4:39:50 PM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: Colofornian
Nephite disciples are apparently only outlived in Mormondom by Cain the Bigfoot!

Nine nine nine?

10 posted on 12/30/2011 4:43:57 PM PST by humblegunner (The kinder, gentler version...)
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To: F15Eagle; All
Giving heed to fables - that Joseph Smith was one wild and crazy guy - and false prophet.

Joseph Smith's mother would hear these fabled myths from her son when he was a teen about 17...before he had access to the alleged ability to "translate" supposed gold plates:

"During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined. He would describe the ancient inhabitants of the continent, their dress, mode of traveling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life among them. On the twenty-second of September, 1824, Joseph again visited the place where he found the plates the year previous; and supporting at this time that the only thing required, in order to possess them until the time for their translation, was to be able to keep the commandments of God...he fully expected to carry them home with him. (Lucy Mack Smith, edited by Preston Nibley, History of Joseph Smith, p. 83, Bookcraft, Salt Lake City, 1958)

Anybody who doesn't think Smith couldn't have made up the Book of Mormon after reading this needs to invest in my swampland island I'm selling bits of in the South Pacific. (We're "reclaiming" a little bit back from the ocean one volcano burp at a time!)

11 posted on 12/30/2011 4:50:25 PM PST by Colofornian (Martyrs don't die in shootouts! Sacrificial lambs aren't armed! J. Smith fired 2 weapons as he died)
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To: Godzilla

Will the Sasquatch become “white and delightsome” one day, too, like the Yeti cousins in the Himalayas?


12 posted on 12/30/2011 4:52:20 PM PST by Colofornian (Martyrs don't die in shootouts! Sacrificial lambs aren't armed! J. Smith fired 2 weapons as he died)
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To: SkyDancer

My father -in-Law was a devote Member of the LDS church and told me he picked up two hitchhiking Nephites who told him of the future—quizzed him on his believes then Vanished away, They only see two Nephites these days—one is resting—my Father -in-law said they rest at the Temple in Manti. When he told the story he sounded really believable.


13 posted on 12/30/2011 4:53:38 PM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Colofornian
Now, let me tell you a story. Its true, believe me. Now I know you may be skeptical about it. But its true.
Although it happened many years ago; it occurred in multiple places on multiple occasions.
It happened in many different cities and towns around the globe.
Some rural locations as well.
In The U.S.A. In Europe. In Central as well as South America.
Even in several different Asian countries.
Repeatedly it occurred. Witnessed by many.

I was walking down, or up the street as the locale may require, and I turned into a bar.

You may not believe it....but I swear...its true.
14 posted on 12/30/2011 5:02:28 PM PST by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: Colofornian

I’m more concerned with the other polygamists than I am with the Mormons. At least the Mormons won’t cut my head off when I fail to submit.


15 posted on 12/30/2011 5:46:01 PM PST by Adams (Fight on!)
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To: Colofornian

Mitt Romney arguing on a plane with Mick Jagger? Jagger probably told Romney to stop being so liberal.


16 posted on 12/30/2011 5:49:10 PM PST by iowamark
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To: Colofornian; greyfoxx39; Elsie; Godzilla; reaganaut; SZonian
From the article: I can remember when I heard my very first Mormon myth.

Sometimes the piñata is hanging so low it's not even worth swinging at.

17 posted on 12/30/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Colofornian
“When Satan sends Cain against Mormons, . . . they think, ‘we must be on the right path, or Satan wouldn’t bother sending in his most evil hordes against us.’”

And when GOD sends the FIs against MORMONism; they say the exact same thing!

18 posted on 12/30/2011 6:09:27 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian

I heard another story that Mitt Rmoney is REALLY a conservative....

Haha

\sarc


19 posted on 12/30/2011 6:14:31 PM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: svcw
There may be more to fear from Bigfoot than the fact that he’s big and hairy: some say that the legendary North American woodland ape is Cain.

There are some who say Jacob's brother, Esau, who was described as red and hairy is the lineage of bigfoot. But that's others, not me. I'm just repeating.
20 posted on 12/30/2011 6:18:46 PM PST by Thorliveshere
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To: Colofornian
"I can remember when I heard my very first Mormon myth..."

Did you hear the one about the con man who claimed to find some golden plates containing a new bible, but he never let anyone see them, and people believed him and his story about being a prophet anyway?

21 posted on 12/30/2011 6:33:36 PM PST by mlo
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To: F15Eagle
Giving heed to fables - that Joseph Smith was one wild and crazy guy - and false prophet.


22 posted on 12/30/2011 6:38:22 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tainan

My uncle once turned into a driveway!


23 posted on 12/30/2011 6:40:34 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tainan
I was walking down, or up the street as the locale may require, and I turned into a bar.

Was it an IRON bar?

Perhaps a ROD???

HR>

Chapter 8

Lehi sees a vision of the tree of life—He partakes of its fruit and desires his family to do likewise—He sees a rod of iron, a strait and narrow path, and the mists of darkness that enshroud men—Sariah, Nephi, and Sam partake of the fruit, but Laman and Lemuel refuse. About 600–592 B.C.

 1 And it came to pass that we had gathered together all manner of aseeds of every kind, both of grain of every kind, and also of the seeds of fruit of every kind.

 2 And it came to pass that while my father tarried in the wilderness he spake unto us, saying: Behold, I have adreamed a dream; or, in other words, I have bseen a cvision.

 3 And behold, because of the thing which I have seen, I have reason to rejoice in the Lord because of aNephi and also of Sam; for I have reason to suppose that they, and also many of their seed, will be saved.

 4 But behold, aLaman and Lemuel, I fear exceedingly because of you; for behold, methought I saw in my dream, a dark and dreary wilderness.

 5 And it came to pass that I saw a aman, and he was dressed in a white brobe; and he came and stood before me.

 6 And it came to pass that he spake unto me, and bade me follow him.

 7 And it came to pass that as I followed him I beheld myself that I was in a dark and dreary waste.

 8 And after I had traveled for the space of many hours in darkness, I began to pray unto the Lord that he would have amercy on me, according to the multitude of his tender mercies.

 9 And it came to pass after I had prayed unto the Lord I beheld a large and spacious afield.

 10 And it came to pass that I beheld a atree, whose bfruit was desirable to make one chappy.

 11 And it came to pass that I did go forth and partake of the afruit thereof; and I beheld that it was most sweet, above all that I ever before tasted. Yea, and I beheld that the fruit thereof was white, to exceed all the bwhiteness that I had ever seen.

 12 And as I partook of the fruit thereof it filled my soul with exceedingly great ajoy; wherefore, I began to be bdesirous that my family should partake of it also; for I knew that it was cdesirable above all other fruit.

 13 And as I cast my eyes round about, that perhaps I might discover my family also, I beheld a ariver of water; and it ran along, and it was near the tree of which I was partaking the fruit.

 14 And I looked to behold from whence it came; and I saw the head thereof a little way off; and at the head thereof I beheld your mother Sariah, and Sam, and aNephi; and they stood as if they knew not whither they should go.

 15 And it came to pass that I beckoned unto them; and I also did say unto them with a loud voice that they should come unto me, and partake of the fruit, which was desirable above all other fruit.

 16 And it came to pass that they did come unto me and partake of the fruit also.

 17 And it came to pass that I was desirous that Laman and Lemuel should come and partake of the fruit also; wherefore, I cast mine eyes towards the head of the river, that perhaps I might see them.

 18 And it came to pass that I saw them, but they would anot come unto me and partake of the fruit.

 19 And I beheld a arod of iron, and it extended along the bank of the river, and led to the tree by which I stood.

 20 And I also beheld a astrait and narrow path, which came along by the rod of iron, even to the tree by which I stood; and it also led by the head of the fountain, unto a large and spacious field, as if it had been a bworld.

 21 And I saw numberless concourses of people, many of whom were apressing forward, that they might obtain the bpath which led unto the tree by which I stood.

 22 And it came to pass that they did come forth, and commence in the path which led to the tree.

 23 And it came to pass that there arose a amist of darkness; yea, even an exceedingly great mist of darkness, insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way, that they wandered off and were blost.

 24 And it came to pass that I beheld others pressing forward, and they came forth and caught hold of the end of the rod of iron; and they did press forward through the mist of darkness, aclinging to the rod of iron, even until they did come forth and partake of the bfruit of the tree.

 25 And after they had partaken of the fruit of the tree they did cast their eyes about as if they were aashamed.

 26 And I also cast my eyes round about, and beheld, on the aother side of the river of water, a great and bspacious building; and it stood as it were in the cair, high above the earth.

 27 And it was filled with people, both old and young, both male and female; and their manner of dress was exceedingly fine; and they were in the aattitude of bmocking and pointing their fingers towards those who had come at and were partaking of the fruit.

 28 And after they had atasted of the fruit they were bashamed, because of those that were cscoffing at them; and they dfell away into forbidden paths and were lost.

 29 And now I, Nephi, do not speak aall the words of my father.

 30 But, to be short in writing, behold, he saw other multitudes pressing forward; and they came and caught hold of the end of the arod of iron; and they did press their way forward, continually holding fast to the rod of iron, until they came forth and fell down and partook of the fruit of the tree.

 31 And he also saw other amultitudes feeling their way towards that great and spacious building.

 32 And it came to pass that many were drowned in the adepths of the bfountain; and many were lost from his view, wandering in strange roads.

 33 And great was the multitude that did enter into that strange building. And after they did enter into that building they did point the finger of ascorn at me and those that were partaking of the fruit also; but we heeded them not.

 34 These are the words of my father: For as many as aheeded them, had fallen away.

 35 And aLaman and Lemuel partook not of the fruit, said my father.

 36 And it came to pass after my father had spoken all the words of his dream or vision, which were many, he said unto us, because of these things which he saw in a vision, he exceedingly feared for Laman and Lemuel; yea, he feared lest they should be cast off from the presence of the Lord.

 37 And he did aexhort them then with all the feeling of a tender parent, that they would hearken to his words, that perhaps the Lord would be merciful to them, and not cast them off; yea, my father did preach unto them.

 38 And after he had preached unto them, and also prophesied unto them of many things, he bade them to keep the commandments of the Lord; and he did cease speaking unto them.



24 posted on 12/30/2011 6:42:16 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Thorliveshere
There are some who say Jacob's brother, Esau, who was described as red and hairy is the lineage of bigfoot.


25 posted on 12/30/2011 6:45:01 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: mlo
Did you hear the one about the con man who claimed to find some golden plates containing a new bible, but he never let anyone see them, and people believed him and his story about being a prophet anyway?



"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."
---Joseph Knight's journal.


"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.
(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),
"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,
as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,
and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."


"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"
reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881
in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:
 
 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,
Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12
June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)


Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:
 
"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"
("A New Witness for Christ in America,"
Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)


"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."
---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.




26 posted on 12/30/2011 6:46:48 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tainan
I was walking down, or up the street as the locale may require, and I turned into a bar.

You may not believe it....but I swear...its true.

A Priest, a Rabbi and Minister walked into a bar and the bartender said,.................................."What is this, some kinda joke"?

27 posted on 12/30/2011 6:58:25 PM PST by Graybeard58 (No Obama, No Romney, No Paul, No Huntsman. We can do better than that!)
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To: Colofornian
Incredible New Images of Horseman of Cairo 1:12
28 posted on 12/30/2011 7:17:01 PM PST by rawcatslyentist (It is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; ~Vattel's Law of Nations)
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To: Tainan
>"I turned into a bar. "

The door must've been ajar.

29 posted on 12/30/2011 7:29:06 PM PST by rawcatslyentist (It is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; ~Vattel's Law of Nations)
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To: Adams
I’m more concerned with the other polygamists than I am with the Mormons. At least the Mormons won’t cut my head off when I fail to submit.

You must be unacquainted with Blood Atonement.

30 posted on 12/30/2011 9:32:05 PM PST by AnTiw1
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To: AnTiw1

Can you cite some recent examples?


31 posted on 12/31/2011 7:23:05 PM PST by Adams (Fight on!)
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To: Elsie

All the “And”s are like biblical Greek, which uses “Kai” very extensively. But the use of “it came to pass” is hysterical.


32 posted on 06/27/2012 5:02:17 AM PDT by dangus
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To: rawcatslyentist

Looks like a lens reflection of the flames.

The ‘horse’ goes right as the flames go left.


33 posted on 06/27/2012 6:40:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dangus
Later on in that 'book'; the writer evidently was worried that any reader might forget just WHO was doing the story telling!


 
THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 16
The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.
 
1 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
4 And it came to pass   I, Nephi,did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
7 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also,   I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.
14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the aRed Sea.
15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
18 And it came to pass that as  I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did amurmur against the Lord.
21 Now it came to pass that  I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
22 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto acomplaining against the Lord their God.
23 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, did amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
24 And it came to pass that he did ainquire of the Lord, for they had bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
28 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
30 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
34 And it came to pass that aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called bNahom.
35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to areturn again to Jerusalem.
37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman bstir up their hearts to canger.
39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.


34 posted on 06/27/2012 6:43:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

WOW. Just wow.

I’m sorry, I mean

And it came to pass that I, Dangus, was wowed.

“And it came to pass” is used to disjoin passages temporally. It makes no sense as used. Unless someone is trying to screen-write the sequel to Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

I also love the colloquial phrase, “said and done.” And “behold, I broke my bow.” What, the reader is supposed to behold his broken bow? I know, “maybe he was giving dictation.”

“Steel bow?”


35 posted on 06/27/2012 10:34:59 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus
I also love the colloquial phrase, “said and done.”

Then you should just LOVE the preciseness of sentences #6&7; with their ending phrases of...

...and so forth.



Here is MORMONism's own creed:
 
 

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541
 
 

  1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
  3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
  4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
  5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
  6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
  7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
  8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
  9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
  10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
  11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
  12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith


 

36 posted on 06/27/2012 11:10:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

I looked up this “steel bow” thing. Apparently, the Mormons feel it’s justified because the King James bible refers to a “steel bow,” even though the Hebrew words mean either “bronze bow” or “serpentine bow.”

But if the King James translation is wrong, how does that justify the Mormon translation being wrong?


37 posted on 06/27/2012 1:35:29 PM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus
But if the King James translation is wrong, how does that justify the Mormon translation being wrong?

I assume you mean the 'translation' of the Book of MORMON from Reformed Egyptian into 1611 English?

Because any error of the KJV has been fixed by Joseph Smith.

He; under the direct command from GOD; 're-translated' the KJ version of the bible into the JST - the Joseph Smith Translation.

)Strangely; the big MORMON religious group; based in Salt Lake City, Utah; does NOT consider it to be 'scripture'.)

You can look up to if 'steel bow' is in it.

38 posted on 06/28/2012 4:00:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dangus
I assume you mean the 'translation' of the Book of MORMON from Reformed Egyptian into 1611 English?

Here is how THAT came about...


"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."
---Joseph Knight's journal.


"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.
(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),
"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,
as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,
and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."


"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"
reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881
in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:
 
 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,
Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12
June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)


Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:
 
"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"
("A New Witness for Christ in America,"
Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)


"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."
---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.




39 posted on 06/28/2012 4:04:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dangus
The following are the LYING images that MORMONism has produced, KNOWING that they represent something FALSE!!
 
 
   

40 posted on 06/28/2012 4:05:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dangus
MORMONs, who have been in the Organization a while, have a unique ability that others lack.

When presented with two or more pieces of conflicting information, from their own publishing division of the church, they can only see ONE of them at a time.

41 posted on 06/28/2012 4:08:25 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
The only true church!


42 posted on 06/28/2012 4:11:23 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Colofornian
Get the companion set today; at a Deseret Bookstore near you!

BOTH The Truth About Mormon Myths and it's completment - The Myth About MORMON Truths in a faux leatherette binding.

PERFECT as an Endowment Ceremony gift for the newly deceived!

43 posted on 06/28/2012 4:13:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
In this story, Mick Jagger says he once took the missionary discussions, indicates that his music is "calculated to drive kids to sex," and loudly calls the leader a liar for preaching about the truthfulness of the gospel.

MAybe MORMONism does the "opposite"...


What is your church doing to help the male to stay true?
 




prophet kimball"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982


spencer kimball"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82

"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65


spencer kimball"Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
-
Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196


"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.


kimball"I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965


"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155


"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.

44 posted on 06/28/2012 4:17:06 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
A favorite quote of those speaking to youth, attributed to President Boyd K. Packer or one of the other Brethren, goes something like this: “You were generals in the War in Heaven, and one day when you are in the spirit world, you will be enthralled by those you are associated with. . . . Someone will turn to you and ask you which of the prophets’ time did you live in?

Speaking of speaking to youth...


 
 
Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

 
 
Timeline...    Subject...
 
0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."
1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."
2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."


45 posted on 06/28/2012 4:19:00 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian; MHGinTN
they think, ‘we must be on the right path, or Satan wouldn’t bother sending in his most evil hordes against us.’”

Fellow cadre members; I think we have another ready for induction into the limited membership of the Flying Inmen.

Can any of you post the link that contains our Membership Questions and information form?

We need the LARGE font one; so that CAIN/BIGFOOT can more easily scribble his mark when signing up and vowing to the arcane requirements that we have set up.


We do appear to have an opening right now...

46 posted on 06/28/2012 4:26:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian; MHGinTN
The Three Nephiites


AMIGO is a Reformed Egyptian word that did NOT get translated into the English of 1611:



Somewhere; in the mountains behind us...

47 posted on 06/28/2012 4:32:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
the White Horse Prophesy


Here I come, to save the day...


White http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGx94VPb8V8

48 posted on 06/28/2012 4:56:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Utah Binger

What are those white things in the SKY???

We don’t have those in Indiana!

I got stumps to burn out and my county just imposed a ban on fires.

We’ve had no rain in 25 days and I am trying hard to keep some of my fruit trees alive!


49 posted on 06/28/2012 5:00:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

50 posted on 06/28/2012 5:01:46 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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