Posted on 12/26/2007 11:50:03 AM PST by Salvation
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Gospel Records of Jesus' Birth |
Question: How did the Gospel writers get records of Jesus' birth? I understand how the Gospels record writings of things Christ did or things he taught the disciples and all his followers. I know how these are first hand accounts or taken from those who had first hand accounts. My question is, there are many events in Scripture where no one was present to witness the event, such as the Annunciation but especially the Magnificat, the Visitation, what Elizabeth said, the birth of Jesus, etc. So, where did the knowledge of these events and the actual quotations come from?
Discussion: To backtrack a bit for the benefit of other readers, Bible scholars generally agree that the book of Mark gives us our oldest Gospel and the primary source for many eye-witness accounts. Other Gospel writers probably drew from that material then added their own encounters, but as you mentioned, none of them not even Mark could have witnessed some of the events, such as Jesus' birth. However, Mary would have.
In the Gospel of Luke, chapter 1 verse 3 tells us the physician had been "investigating everything accurately anew," which indicates that Luke took the diagnostic approach of a well-trained doctor. In addition, Luke seems to have taken on a role similar to that of today's investigative reporter. Very likely, his work included careful note-taking of the questions he posed or conversations he had with reliable eye witnesses. Surely, too, at some point in time, Luke would have wanted to interview Jesus' Mother.
Not only did Mary know her Son better than anyone else on earth could, she was with Jesus at every major event in his life. When other followers ran away and hid, she stood at the foot of the cross with no apparent concern for her own life. Mary was there. She was focused. She was spirit-filled and brave from the moment of Jesus' conception to his ascension into heaven, but most certainly at his birth and other events you mentioned.
Because of her faith, strength, and character, Mary would have made the ideal eye-witness on whom Luke could rely to present an accurate account of the birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ. In our search for the truth, we, too, can rely on Jesus' Mother and the guidance of the Holy Spirit who filled her very being with the Lord. So, as we prepare for the New Year, let's consider Mary our example for giving ourselves more fully to God. For instance, we might begin thinking and praying about ways to answer this important question: "Remember The Sabbath?" Lord willing, we'll have opportunity to discuss that topic in the next Bible Talk.
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I have heard various accounts of evidence that Christ had to be born in the spring as that was when shepherds would be watching their flocks at night as lambs would be born in the early spring...however, the Bible does not specify exactly when they came to the manger. I reason it could have been late February or early March--when the lambs are usually born.
The question is whether you believe and trust Sukkot as the date is supported by Elizabeth's pregnancy of John the Immerser. Zacharias served as a high priest and based on his tribe, we know when he served John would have been born on Pesach. Most Jews believed that Factor in when Miriam visited her cousin Elizabeth, John (1:14) tells us that Yah'shua was made flesh and tabernacled among us. Eight days after the beginning of Sukkot is another Holy Feast Day called Shemini Atzeret. Eight days after a Jewish male is born he is circumcised. Nine months back from Sukkot is Chanukah where the light entered the temple.
the Holy Word of Elohim in Luke 1
or you trust the traditions of man Yah'shua's birth on Sukkot (September 26 at sundown to October 3 2007)
b'SHEM Yah'shua
(Sukkot is the Feast of Tabernacles or booths, where we live in temporary shelters.
Sukkot is when YHvH took on a temporary garment to be with His People
and to die as the Lamb of G-d on Pesach in order to bring salvation to all
who would call on His Name : Yah'shua ( YHvH is become my salvation)).
The time sequence is outlined by the Holy Word of Elohim in Luke 1 with Zacharias.
and when he was struck dumb and when John was conceived.
Elijah would come at Pesach to announce the coming of the Messiah
Elizabeth was six months pregnant (Luke 1:26)
Thus the timing of Yah'shua's birth can be ascertained.
I have always presumed that this was Luke's way of attributing his birth narrative to Mary. After all how would Luke know what Mary treasured up or pondered upon if she had not told him herself?
Unless I miss my guess, you are relying on some "traditions" as well: based on his tribe, we know when he served and when he was struck dumb and when John was conceived.
Do we not know that from a "tradition of men", i.e. which tribe was serving when the Temple was destroyed?
John would have been born on Pesach. Most Jews believed that Elijah would come at Pesach to announce the coming of the Messiah
Most Jews believed to me sounds like a tradition of men.
There seem to be other man-made assumptions in your exegesis as well, so I'm a little puzzled by your anti-tradition attitude, especially considering--as any good Jew knows--the oral tradition is not something to be discarded as if it were a meaningless distraction from the Holy Scripture.
Do we not know that from a "tradition of men", i.e. which tribe was serving when the Temple was destroyed?
1 Chronicles 24:7-18
And the Pesach reference? Where’s that?
And Fifth Cup of wine bears the name of Elijah NAsbU Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD.
That seems to me a rabbinic inference from connecting those two concepts—the fact that Elijah comes at Pesach is not literally spelled out in Scripture though, is it?
I sound like a Protestant LOL
Interesting facts, especially about the Star of Bethlehem and annunciation date.
Then we have the quote from John the Baptist that has been aligned allegorically with the calendar — “He must increase; I must decrease.”
Christ was born in the winter when the days start to get longer — increase. John the Baptist was born in the summer when the days start getting shorter — decrease.
**Pesach**
What month would this be on our calendar?
Pesach is Passover...March/April...
What month would this be on our calendar?
In 2008 it will be 19/20 April. It is always the 14 of Nisan, NAsbU Leviticus 23:5 'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the LORD'S Passover.In 2007 it was 2/3 April.
b'SHEM Yah'shua
the 14th day after the new Moon after the ripening of the Barley.
Thanks......I learn somehing every day! LOL!
It sounds like you are concluding that John was born in the Spring, which would put Jesus's birth close to where it is now on our calendar.
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