The Coming War of Armageddon and the Power of the Antichrist...

Today the Jewish community is planning to build their third temple on the Temple Mount...However, there is one problem in the way...the Dome of Rock.

Much debate among the Jewish community has been given to this problem...From blowing up the Dome of Rock to building the third temple some where else on God's Mountain...

It's not going to be an easy task for the Anti Christ to bring both sides together with out giving up space on the Temple Mount for the Jewish people to build their temple.

However, a great earthquake from God through the Mount of Olive would collapse the Temple Mount today and every thing on it.......

The Bible tells us clearly that the Jewish people will rebuild their Third temple on the Temple Mount...The Bible gives an exact location for the Temple to be rebuilt...The Jewish community today have been stock piling supplies and materials in order to rebuild their Temple in a short amount of time...

A good estimated time period for rebuilding the Third Temple could be 1 to 2 years...

The Beast (Antichrist) the world leader of the western alliance or the revived Roman Empire will make peace with Israel and guarantees her safety and security at the beginning of Daniel's seventieth week, which is the seven year period of Daniels prophecy called the tribulation period...

However, during the beginning of the Tribulation period the Antichrist is not in complete control over the world at this point...

Matter of fact, the Anti - Christ never has complete control and power over the whole world during the first half of the Tribulation period...He has complete control over the old world called the Revived Roman Empire...

The Beast must first fight for total control over the earth. To gain ultimate dictatorship and control over the earth, he will have to face the military strength of both the Russian confederacy and a powerful Eastern force, called China.

Along with all of their eastern and middle eastern allies...Which includes, Persia (Iran), Ethiopia which includes Sudan, and Libya...Gomer, Togarmah which is modern Turkey will also be allies of Russia...(Ezek 38:5,6)

The war with Russia will be a brief nuclear battle... but deadly beyond what we could ever imagine...

"But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many." Daniel 11:44

Russia's attack on Israel will be one of the most destructive battles in history. Ezekiel's description of the battle is as follows:

...Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

And I will call for a sword against him through all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother. And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone (Ezek. 38:19-22).

The prophet's vision carries with it many characteristics of a nuclear war. There are earth rocking explosions. Mountains collapsing and destroyed. Rain, hail, and fire become part of the deadly picture as nature erupts in rebellion against the forces marching to bring destruction to the Jewish community.

While details of military action in this war are very few, we know that the weapons used during this battle will provide fuel for seven years which is the length of the tribulation period...We also know that the dead will be buried in the Valley of Hamon east of the dead sea and the task will take seven months. (Ezek 39:9--13)

The defeat of Russia will make it clear to the Jewish community that God has protected them: "Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD (Ezek. 38:23).

The casualties of the Russian army is so great that only one-sixth of their fighting force is left after the battle: "And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel" (Ezek. 39:2).

First, the attack by Russia will give the Antichrist an excuse for full occupation of Israel under the pretense of protection and safety and will, along with his defeat of the huge Eastern force (Rev. 9:16), and perhaps extend his power over the entire world.

Second, the divine protection of Israel as prophesied by Ezekiel and proclaimed to the world by 144,000 Jewish evangelists and writers throughout the closing time will turn many Jews to their Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ...

Following the miraculous defeat of the Russian armies and their allies for Israel's sake, the Antichrist will then vent his fury against the massive Eastern force of 200 million Chinese that is moving toward the Middle East to challenge his power. The casualties in this war will total one-third of the world's population.

However, there is a time gap between the Ezekiel 38 and 39 war and the war with the Eastern force of 200 million Chinese in the book of Revelation. The Bible is silent to the exact length of time.....

These are two separate battles which will take place at two separate periods of time. As stated earlier the Ezekiel 38 and 39 war takes place perhaps before the Tribulation period or at the very beginning of the Tribulation period and is a very brief but spectacular battle that only only leaves one-sixth of the Russian army alive....

The Eastern force of 200 million Chinese in the book of Revelation wipes out one third of the worlds population....

And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. For this power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt" (Rev. 9:15 -- 19).

It is not difficult to conclude that nuclear weaponry will be used and in the populous Eastern nations and Russia... The destruction that is unleashed by the Antichrist will be beyond what this world has ever seen before...

1. The army will “melt.” “And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth” (Zech. 14:12).

2. A river of blood 200 miles long and “bridle” deep. “And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs” (Rev. 14:20).

3. Great stench. “Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcasses, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood” (Isa. 34:3).

With all the world under his power the Antichrist will deify himself, demanding worship in the Jews' new temple in Jerusalem. He will then assume total economic control, requiring his mark in the hand or forehead in order for a person to transact any business. The Beast will rule the earth, and will be assisted by the false prophet and powered by Satan. The entire world will be under the control of a satanic trinity:

Persecution of believers in Christ will reach an all-time high. Millions will be martyred for their new believe in Jesus Christ during the second half of the Tribulation period...

It's sad to note that many will also give into the demands of the satanic trinity and worship the beast...

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:4 -- 8).

It is clear then that all opposition to the Beast will finally be put down, making him a world dictator. Threats from the north, the south, and the east will be overcome. "...therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious mountain..." (Dan. 11:44,45).

Perhaps the Antichrist will think he has accomplished the dreams of Hitler, Napoleon, and Caesar, and many others who have attempted to conquer the world... He will be the dictator of the world and have his 15 minutes of fame...

When the Antichrist thinks he has it all...something spectacular suddenly happens in the clouds....

"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

And out of mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS". Rev. 19:11-16.

Jesus Christ suddenly appears in the clouds with all of His saints that were raptured before the Tribulation period... He defeats the Antichrist and the false prophet with great ease... He puts an end to the Antichrists evil government powered by Satan...He cast them both into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20). Satan himself is bound for a thousand years...

Immediately after the Tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31)

Thanks for these interesting site. I don’t study Eschatology very often-too confusing for my mind. But this is the first I’ve heard of this view and there seems to be a wealth of information that will keep me busy reviewing so I’ve bookmarked it. As the site is rather difficult to go through it would be interesting to post some more succinct articles.

From the very tiny bit I’ve read from these articles it certainly seems to makes much sense. I was just puzzled by the following statement in one of the articles:

”Many, if not most full preterists insist that the world has no end, and is in the middle of a glorious growth in stature through the work of Christ's "New Heavens and Earth.”

If I understand this correctly, that we are in the middle of “glorious growth” forever and ever until we reach perfection, I’m not sure I would agree . The external evidence does not seem to support this. If fact, if one would compare the history of the age of the Law against the Church age there are direct parallels to the corruption of Jews under the Law and corruption of the Church (in general) which we are now all facing.

I don’t wish to sound like I have any preconceived ideas on this subject because I don’t. I just do not understand it and I value the site you’ve provided.

SO when "Jesus" says therefore go preach the Good News to all nations, and when they hear the "End Will Come" in there generation they did preach the Good News to all Nations, could it just be that G-d's time peace and ours is totally different?

In the crossroads of the nations, Jesus proclaimed that the land and the known world would be reached with the message of his coming and kingdom and then the end would come. Matt. 24:14. It happened.
"This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant." Colossians 1:23

Jesus told the Jewish leaders "Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit." Matt. 21:43

Jesus is not a liar. It all happened exactly as he foretold.

"Also if the Jews had never had there homeland after the destruction of the temple, would that be a Prophecy that has not been fulfilled yet? as they are still returning to Israel."

Christ is the rebuilt temple. Take your eyes off the worldy and think spiritually. Acts 15:13-18; all of Hebrews. The Body of Christ, the Church, the kingdom contain Jew and Gentile alike. Racial Israel has become spiritual Israel - Ex. 19:6,9 to Rev. 1. All the Old Covenant designations for Israel now are applied to the Church - 1 Peter 2:5-9,10.

Again, there is no need. Those today called Jews, who have intermarried and received huge numbers of folks who have no lineal connection to Abraham, have no record of their genealogy to Abraham, could move back. It has been primarily those from oppressive nations who have moved there. Secondly, a temple could be rebuilt and animal sacrifices reinstituted, but never in accordance with the Scriptural guidelines. Finally, Jesus Christ ended the need for a physical land, a temple, a priesthood, a law. He is the fulfillment of all those things. We live now in and with the presence of Christ; look forward to Christ's victory in this world and to communion with Christ and the saints in the next. We have blessing and the very presence of God with us. A sandbox in the middle east is an anachronism.

I guess too I didn't make my point well. The promise of land, the promise of regathering after the exile in Babylon have already been fulfilled. There is no need to see them fulfilled now. Those who insist that secular Israel is some sort of prophetic clock ignore Scripture. Following their timetable (one generation from Israel regathered and all that, 1948 for 40 years (even 42 or 44) finds nothing happening. Fine, go to 1967 and all Jerusalem captured - though nothing in Scripture warrants that either - and you have 2007. Being generous, I'll go with a forty-four year generation so Jack Van Impe and Hal Lindsey have time to sell more books to the unwary and you come out at about 2011 for ?rapture; ?armageddon. What happens when those prophecies fail again? In 1992 the Korean Church was experiencing tremendous revival. Someone asserted the rapture was to occur that year - it didn't happen and the ridicule from non-Christians hasn't stopped.
That has been the history of much of the church for the last 174 years - Bible exegesis by newspaper headline and failed prophecy experts. Scripture has the answer.

"In Ancient times they had no way to destroy the Great Planet earth, but G-d did by Soddom and Gommorah, the Great Flood, could it be that in our Generation we do have the means to destroy our planet, and before that happens G-d will intervene?"

Why? A new heavens and new earth have been ushered in by Christ; his kingdom will have no end - it is not a plan B or parenthesis. God's plan has always been to have his people include all people - Jews and Gentiles alike.

The language of 2 Peter 3:10, the heavens pass away with a great noise, the elements melt with fervent heat, the earth (land) and works therein are burned refers to the elements of the Temple and Old Covenant Judaism. The passing away of the old heavens and earth (which is 'land' in the Greek as in 'promised land' not the globe or cosmos) ushers in the new heavens and land of the New Covenant which - if you read Hebrews is all tied up in Jesus and a heavenly Jerusalem.

The language used for the passing of heavens/earth is similar to that used in the Old Testament for national judgment, see Isaiah 34 and the judgment on Idumea and Bozrah: "There slain shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcasses, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood . . . And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host (stars) shall fall down, as the leaf falleth from the vine, and as a falling fig from a fig tree . . . It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up forever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever."

That portent and that apocalyptic language has been fulfilled. It was perfectly fulfilled in a time without nuclear weapons or global destruction. I would encourage you to not push the metaphorical and symbolic language of apocalyptic literature beyond what it simply means.

When were the 'last days'? They aren't now. In the NT the last days referred to the closing of the Old Covenant era and the dawning of the age to come, the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31. See 1 John 2:17-18 and Hebrews 1:2 for instance. The last days were in the 50's and 60's AD.

There are problems with preterism. There are "problem" passages - not too many but some. I think every school of thought that attempts to deal with apocalyptic and prophetic passages and books always has some loose ends whether it be postmill/premill/amill or preterist.

I was thrown by a continuing world when first coming to look at a first century fulfillment. But, if you look at the Old Testament and New Testament prophecies about Christ's kingdom - the one inaugurated at the Cross and Resurrection, solidified at Pentecost and the destruction of the Temple - it has no end.

(Aside from that, as a school undergoing a revival of sorts - you find preteristic tendencies and teachers throughout the history of the Church - there is a wide range of thought from partial preterists to full preterists - from those who believe even promises of heaven were fulfilled in AD 70 or the Church as an institution was fulfilled. Most do not subscribe to those extreme and unbiblical positions. Most preterists simply want to take Jesus at his world, don't posit a separation between Jews and Gentiles in the New Covenant, don't see the Church as 'Plan B' and see most, but not all, of prophetic language as fulfilled.

I do find a passage, maybe two, that point toward the final giving over of the kingdom to God in victory. I believe in a final consummation. But, in the 'in between times' we are to occupy and advance. We are to train our children (and have alot of them) to exert godly dominion over creation in the name of Christ. I hold to an essentially optimistic eschatology - whether it be called optimistic amillennial or preterist or postmillennial. I would respectfully disagree about a parallel in corruption between the OT Law and NT Church or Grace.

People, I think, get to wrapped up in external events, the daily newspaper, a doom and gloom pessimism that has been fueled by rapture fever and so miss the signs of growth in Christ's kingdom. Look where Christianity began 2000 years ago; at the history since; at the current explosive growth of Christianity around the world. China's growing church is eyeing mission to the Middle East and Islam in the coming Centuries. If anyone can do it, by God's grace and Spirit, the Chinese Christians will be the one's to see the Islamic world converted to Christ! They do not carry the baggage of being White, Western Christians and will literally be coming in the 'back door.' Some say we are living in a post-Christian world. I would disagree and assert it is pre-Christian. We have not yet begun to see the power and victory of the Gospel in worldwide dominion.

That is not to say that there won't be conflicts and errors within and without the Church, but the overall tendency is toward kingdom growth, Gospel victory and Christ's dominion.

http://www.postmillennialism.com

I've got to jump off and get on to work,vistations, etc., but recalling the Olivet Discourse, and the earthquake that shook the temple and rent the veil at the holy of holies in two was a wakeup call to the Jewish leaders.

If not then, when the city was being destroyed, the temple desecrated first by zealots, then by Romans, as the temple implements and records and treasury were looted and destroyed, as signs were literally seen and heard in the heavens over Jerusalem (read Josephus' account of the Jewish War)that would have been all a fulfilling of Jesus' words that all the tribes/nations of the land would see the one they pierced coming in power and in clouds. (the Old Testament finds several times the tribes of Israel referred to as nations/kings, as well as tribes, and again the New Testament language is about 'land' not 'globe,' the image of 'clouds' is about coming in power or judgment as it is used of God in the Old Testament.

First, there is no term 'second coming' in the New Testament. For all the noise made about it, as a label it is not there. Secondly, Jesus said he would 'come' at the death of a believer; at Pentecost; in salvation, etc. There are mutliple senses in which Jesus comes again.

The prophetic language, let's say in the Olivet Discourse Matt. 24; Luke 21; Mark 13 and Revelation was fulfilled in AD 70.

Some folks want to see a future fulfillment of a battle of 'Gog and Magog' because they hold to a futurist method of interpretation. They see a permanent division between Jews and Gentiles. They see the Church and the Cross as Plan Be and not God's original intention. They see the land promises to Israel and a rebuilt temple as absolutely vital to understanding God's purposes. I think they are wrong. The New Israel includes all races and peoples forever. It was and is God's plan to see a spiritual Israel with innumerable spiritual children (isn't that the message of Galatians, Abraham's spiritual children, the worthlessness of racial descent from Abraham without faith in Christ, the contrast between worldy Jerusalem and the heavenly Jerusalem that was coming?).

"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made in the hands; that at the time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were afar off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made us both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us." Ephesians 2:11-14

"Cast out the bond woman and her son for the son of the bond woman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman." Galatians 4 contrasts Sarah and Hagar. Sarah represents the Church of Jesus Christ, the spiritual heirs of Abraham's promise. Hagar represents the Law, Mt. Sinai in Arabia and the city of Jerusalem.

But, in Christ, there are no more racial distinctions, Jewish or otherwise. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male nor female for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise."

Premillennialists take Rev. 20 literally (so they say). They see the already past battle of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38 and 39 as awaiting future fulfillment. How does that work with Luke 1:33 where the government of Christ has no end? How can Gog/Magog and a battle at Armageddon begin a 'tribulation' and also end a 'millennium'?

I enjoy scrapping a bit over eschatology, but do try to keep in mind the old axiom - in essentials unity, in non-essentials charity, in all things love & hope I am not coming across as a know it all. I simply think dealing with the Bible literature itself, letting it interpret itself that preterism comes out ahead.

Blessings to you.

Thank You for the kind words but I ask that you please pray and give thanks to God for he comes first and pray for me as I pray for all those who are seeking the Lord.

1) One question how do we calculate Daniel's 70 weeks? to be sure that many of the prophectic visions are still not fufilled, are there true numbers outling this time frame?

Before we begin calculating the time period, let's define an important term using a scriptural definition. In prophecy, a day represents a literal year. Please turn to Numbers 14:34 "...forty days, each day for a year.. even forty years and ye shall know my breach of promise." In this Biblical example we see God using the day/year principle as he speaks about the future punishment that is to befall Israel for continuously breaking his commandments. This rule applies to the 70 week prophecy of Dan.9:24-27 as well as to the 2300 year prophecy, the 1260 year prophecy, and others. In seventy weeks we have 490 days or 490 literal years. In verse 24 we see that these 490 years is an allotted or "determined" period that will be given to the Israelites before the things that are mentioned are to be accomplished. The transgression of the Jewish people was going to fill the cup of their iniquity (rejected Christ and had him crucified), to make an end of sins (also means sin offering - Hebrew chattath - example: Leviticus 4:3) (this final sin offering was Christ's death at Calvary). And this provided reconciliation for man to become at one (atonement) with God. The prophecy was sealed and if all came true as was given then the prophecy was of God and all would be accomplished. To anoint the most Holy never referrs to a person. It always referrs to the sanctuary and/or its articles. Examples: Exodus 29:37; 30:10; 30:26-29; Lev. 6:17 and many others. Therefore, with this in mind, we apply this to the annointing of the antitypical (real) tabernacle in heaven as Christ enters as our heavenly High Priest (Heb. 9:11) to begin his heavenly ministry on behalf of the sinners on earth. We see the typical (earthly) scenario of the annointing process of a High Priest with the annointing of Aaron's sons demonstrated in Exodus 29:29-37. In verse 25 the angel tells Daniel when to begin the 490 year prophecy. He said there was to be a total of 69 weeks (483 years) from the going forth of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem until the coming of the Messiah (Annointed) One. Here we run into a minor problem. There were three different degrees given by three different kings to the Jews to return to Jerusalem. The first was given by Cyrus the Great (Koresh) in 536 BC which ended the 70 year captivity in Babylon. 2Chronicles 36:21-23. If we subtract 483 years from 536BC, it doesn't bring us anywhere near the Annointing date of Christ. This easily eliminates that year as the beginning of the 490 year prophecy. The second command was given by Darius Hystapses to Zerubbabel in 520 BC (1 Elul 3241) Hagai 1:1,14,15. Again, if we subtract 483 years from 520BC we don't come anywhere near the annointing date of Christ. We go to the last command given by Artaxerxes Longimanus in 458 BC (Tishri 3304) Ezra 7:7-9,11. They did not depart until 6 months later in 457BC. (wall completed in 445BC). Let's put this date to the test. We subtract 483 years from 458BC (don't forget that there is no calendar year 0). That gets us to the year 26AD - BINGO, the year Christ was Annointed Messiah. Let's continue with the final 7 years of the prophecy. For some oddball reason, 99.9% of so called pastors, like to take the last seven years of this 490 year prophecy and move it forward 2000 years and apply it to the end time scenario of Revelation. If this isn't a distortion of the Bible TRUTHS then I don't know what is. We know that Christs ministry lasted 3 1/2 years from his annointing (30 years of age - Luke 3:22,23) until his crucifixion 5 April 30AD Julian (verse 26 "..Messiah be cutoff.." and verse 27 " ..in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease...". The midst of the week referrs to the 3 1/2 years of his ministry which is half of the last seven years of the 490 year prophecy. The part of vs. 26 speaking of the people of the prince is referring to the Romans (prince being Satan) when they invaded Jerusalem in 70 AD (40 years after the death of Christ) and destroyed the sanctuary (2nd Temple) and left the place desolated because of the Jews continual animal sacrifices (abomination), making Christ's death a mockery. The last 3 1/2 years (after Christ's death), which completes the whole prophecy, brings us to the Reformation and the stoning of Stephen (28 Sep.33AD) in Acts 7:60. Looking again at vs.27 let's define "confirm the covenant". This relates to Galatians 4:1-7. Christ's death made all gentiles spiritual heirs or adopted sons of the covenant God made with Abraham (Gen. 17:8-11). During that last week (7 years) that covenant was confirmed. As always may God Bless You in your search for the TRUTH.

"How can Gog/Magog and a battle at Armageddon begin a 'tribulation' and also end a 'millennium'?

The idea that history is prophesy works. Look for a dual fulfillment or a partial fulfillment.

"I enjoy scrapping a bit over eschatology, but do try to keep in mind the old axiom - in essentials unity, in non-essentials charity, in all things love & hope I am not coming across as a know it all. I simply think dealing with the Bible literature itself, letting it interpret itself that preterism comes out ahead.

I also enjoy scrapping, it sharpens the mind. I will take a shot at the dark side of your axiom, you see it works only for the person who decides what is essential. What do you do if your denomination decides that gay bishops should be classified as non-essential? If someone quits a church over some petty little thing, we can justify ourselves by saying it is non-essential. A rule of thumb: If something is important to one side, we will do well not to take it lightly.

Evangelical Christians tend to be forgiving of prophecy experts. Not that that is a fault only amongst the dispensational premillenial perspective: Gary North, a postmillenialist, should be utterly discredited for crying wolf about Y2K

Actually, he has been discredited -- as far as eschatology goes.

I don't think North has written word one about Postmillennialism since Jan, 1, 2000 dawned and all the lights were still on. These days, he pretty much sticks to writing editorials from a Biblical-Calvinist perspective on the state of the Church in America, Business & Economics, Socio-Cultural and Political issues... oh, and the occasional movie reviews (all areas in which he's always been a competent critic, and never staked his credibility on wild prognostications).

IOW, Gary North took his lumps and bowed out of the future-prediction game like a fair loser.

Has Lindsey likewise taken his lumps and moved on? Hmmm.....

I don't agree with Gary North on a lot. But, he was (from what I read and heard on the net, etc. in the lead up to 2000/Y2K) urging the notion that computer systems would fail and taking precautionary steps - his theory re: Y2K was of course mistaken. That said, I don't think North was tying in Y2K with any sort of eschatological scheme, was he?

There's been a general "future-things schematic" coming out of the Tyler School (Rushdoony, North, etc.) since the 1960's that a Great Upheaval was "just around the corner", which would cast down the Powers and Principalities of the "god of this present world" and make way for the Peaceful Golden Millennium of the Church. Prof. David J. Engelsma, in his "A Defense of Reformed Amillennialism", discusses this topic:

He described in graphic detail an impending collapse of civilization. His advice to Christians in view of this disaster? "Save your gold and silver." This will empower the saints to reconstruct society. I did not know whether to laugh or cry. The thought of possessing any silver and gold was hilarious. The idea that a Reformed minister would strengthen Christians for their struggle in the last days by financial advice was sad.

In Ezekiel 33, the Lord instructs the watchman to signal the approach of the enemy against His people, warning that the watchman who fails to blow the trumpet of alarm shall be guilty of the blood of the people.

Reformed amillennialism sees the enemy of the church approaching. It sees this in light of the Word of God, Holy Scripture. It is giving the warning. No opposition from dreamers of coming earthly peace will stop its trumpet.

As for those who refuse to heed the warning, their blood will be upon their own heads.

North was basically playing the same game with Y2K as was his mentor Rushdoony back in th 1960's. But you have to respect North's honesty for bowing out of the race when his horse didn't win, place, or even show.

He paid his monies, and he took his chances. Y2K didn't pan out, so he cashed in his "future-prognostication" chips.

Oddly enough, Lindsey (et al) have not been so similarly forthright about their mistakes.

Incidentally, I enjoy reading your posts and largely agree with them (I'm a fairly preteristic Amillennialist, moreso than Engelsma, for example) -- but in reading you posts, I hope that you do not get so carried away with Preterism as to deny the future Bodily Return of Jesus Christ and the Bodily Resurrection of all saints and sinners unto Final Judgment.

I haven't time or inclination to dwell upon the subject right now, but suffice it to say that no matter how valuable Preterism may be for making sense of the "this generation" and "at hand" Prophecies of the New Testament, we can't allow our Preterism to carry us past the realm of Christian Orthodoxy when it comes to the future Bodily Return and the Bodily Resurrection (which may be tomorrow or another two thousand years from now, but it hasn't happened yet).

best, OP

The Dating of Revelation - There is a good article linked below. Revelation, and much of the New Testament, was written prior to AD 70.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/curtis-david_p_01.html

Below is a link to a number of articles, both positive and critical, of preterism or past fulfillment. Who stopped the clock? Read some of the articles on the page below about Daniel's 70 Weeks. It has been accomplished, prophecy and vision have been sealed up. Again, Jesus was not a liar. In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus said all - "all" - of his prophetic declarations would be accomplished in his own generation. The word used does not mean 'race' as in Jews, that is genos (see 1 Peter 2:9). Jesus didn't use the word gennema, which indicates 'progeny' as in "O Generation of vipers" the Greek word used is gennema. When 'origin' is intended, 'genesis' is used. No, in Matthew 24 and its synoptic counterparts in Luke 21 and Mark 13, Jesus spoke of that 'generation' - genea - a literal generation - dicker as to whether it is 40, 42, 44 or even 50 years, all he spoke was fulfilled and accomplished in that generation.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/index.html

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