Experts call Biblical artifact a fake

USA Today ^ | 06/18/03 | Associated Press

[MissAmericanPie]

Examination of the antiquity should not be limited to one source who may have an agenda. The doubt should be removed by examination by several authorities.

I have had several online discussions with orthodox jews who almost toss their cookies at the mention of the name Jesus. They believe Christians have kidnapped their history and turned it into spiritual mumbo jumbo. Not that I condemn them for that view, but it would make more sense to have experts, world wide, with no political constraints weighing on their decisions to examine the artifact. That way the findings would have no reason to be held in suspecion.

[BrooklynGOP]

An ancient burial box purported to have held the bones of Jesus' brother, James, is a fake, Israel's Antiquities Authority said

Yea. Really. Imagine if they certified it as authentic and then it came out it was not. Imagine the uproar from these people.

[BrooklynGOP]

Examination of the antiquity should not be limited to one source who may have an agenda. The doubt should be removed by examination by several authorities.

You still did not explain these alleged agenda. Please, answer my question. Do you, as a Christian, deny that Mohammed existed?

I have had several online discussions with orthodox jews who almost toss their cookies at the mention of the name Jesus.

Did they deny that he existed?

[mdmathis6]

If the inscription was authentic, then the beliefs of many Jews, agnostics, atheists, secular liberals,and politically correct paganists, just about any-body who wasn't a Christian would have to re-consider their whole life and belief systems. That's why one might argue that there might be an "agenda" in denying or at least throwing a lot of doubt on such a phenomena.
Physics and chemistry should shed a lot of light on the "patina" on the box and on the inscription. A recently etched inscription would be simple enough to establish, though it would have settled the question had the whole inscription been recently etched and not a part of it. Lime-stone being what it is, is fairly chemically reactive with the acidic pollutants in the atmosphere and I wonder how that has affected the box over time.

Truth to tell, even if the box is authentic, I doubt it would change a lot of minds. Divinity is a tough thing to prove logically from writings and relics 20 centuries old; even if they helped establish that a personage known as Jesus really lived, all the other claims made about him would still be arguable.
And I say these things as a "true believer" in Jesus Christ as Lord and King, God in Flesh!

[BrooklynGOP]

Examination of the antiquity should not be limited to one source who may have an agenda. The doubt should be removed by examination by several authorities.

Huh? Nobody is denying that Jesus existed, just as nobody is denying that Mohammed existed. This being authentic or not is purely a historical question - not a religous one.

[MissAmericanPie]

No they did not deny he existed, though some do deny it. Do you deny that Political Correctness reigns in Israel as well as the rest of Western nations? As long as examination is restricted to only these authorities a PC agenda will be suspected by many more people than just me.

[BrooklynGOP]

No they did not deny he existed, though some do deny it.

I can assure you that a person who denies that Jesus existed is not considered an "expert" *anywhere*.

Do you deny that Political Correctness reigns in Israel as well as the rest of Western nations?

Huh? Your ignorance is appaling. What does political corectness have to do with Jesus? *NOBODY* (not even atheists) deny his existence. The only question is wether he was the messiah. I am going to ask you yet again. Do you or do you not deny Mohammed's existence?

[Norse]

Actually there are plenty who doubt his existence. I know some

[BrooklynGOP]

Actually there are plenty who doubt his existence. I know some

I haven't heard anyone deny that he existed just as nobody denies that Mohammed existed. In any case, why would you think that these people would be on Israel's Antiqity Authority?

[azhenfud]

Rev. Ch 22 V 11
"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."


Those who will believe, will. Those who won't, the authenticity of the box won't change them....

[RedWhiteBlue]

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"(Heb.11:1)

[BrooklynGOP]

Those who will believe, will. Those who won't, the authenticity of the box won't change them....

I don't get it. If the box was authentic how would that prove that Jesus was not just a simple man?

[drjimmy]

It could very well hold someone else's bones too...how would anyone know whose bones they are? And what is the significance?
This thread is like a Monty Python sketch. The evidence indicates that someone in modern times forged an inscription on a box to make it appear that it had once held the bones of the brother of Jesus. Some people on this site are claiming that because the Jews do not recognize the divinity of Jesus, they have "an agenda" to deny that this box once held the bones of the brother of Jesus. Apples and oranges.

It isn't significant to me one way or the other, but it obviously is to a lot of people, including the guy who would stand to make at least a million bucks from selling the box if it held the bones of the brother of Jesus. If not, it's just one more ancient ossuary among the hundreds the Israel Antiquities Authority has in its storeroom.

[stuartcr]

I guess people will buy just about anything. It's true about one being born every minute.

[MissAmericanPie]

I think you must be pretty naive to believe that secularism is not a religion. And secularism in Israel as well as the rest of the world is rampant and wants ZERO dicussion about religion of any kind as they see it as the cause of most wars. I do not deny Muhammad existed nor do secularists, they merely quell any talk of religion that rears it's head for discussion or merit.

Secularists want no discussion of Jesus nor Muhammad, Hinduism, or Buddism, they would like all religion to vanish from the face of the earth. They would no more produce evidence of Muhammad than they would Jesus because they want no positive publicity for, nor discussion of religion, nor stirring of controversy on the topic. I would not trust ONLY the judgement of one group of experts.

Secularism/liberalism runs rampant through our nations government, agencies, acedemia, and media just as it runs through the same in Israel, France, England, Canada, et al. Bring on religious antiquities experts and let the debate begin.

[mdmathis6]

Well some still doubt his existence or if he existed, they doubt that he did the miracles or was even crucified the way it was claimed.
An old history professor of mine cited some old writings dated from 70 AD talking about a "crazy man name Jesus" who went running around spewing prophetic warnings during the seige of Jerusalem by the Romans, he was supposedly killed during one of the attacks on the walls. His contention was that Christianity may have sprung from such a wild man such as this. Of course looking at the history of Christianity and archeological findings, we know that Nero had already instituted the first early pogroms against the sect in Rome. But he felt this man may have had a following and this is what inspired men to carry the message!
So you see, one can cite evidence and ancient writings to, back-up ones claim of belief and one can counter with same to counter another view!

In the end, it is faith and the results of which that warms ones heart that pursusade a man that what he believes is true. Missionaries that have come to my church have cited miracles and even raisings of the dead on their mission fields, but I have never seen a direct miracle like that. I have no reason to doubt them, they seem like humble people and "right in their minds". I have had perceived positive answers to prayer, but that is also a "faith issue" as well, as it is my perception as to what has happened for my good fortune. I have peace in my heart, beleiving that God loves me and that Jesus had paid the blood sacrifice for my sins. These are all subjective things, these are things I can attest to, or "witness" of. But I make no mistake that these personal observations can be offered up as solid evidence to any-one, though my life can be an example of some-one who at least lives out what he professes to believe!
And that is what I meant about the ossuary. I know you weren't denying Christ's historicity, but even if the box were genuine, it still wouldn't argue for his divinity. Some may see a threat in acknowledging even Christ's historicity, which is what the poster was refering to when he spoke of "agendas".

[Light Speed]

There is more to this story...

The Ossuary was sent to the R.O.M.[Royal Ontario Museum] in Canada .
There it would undergo exacting examination.

It arrives...and behold...its broken!
Yes..cracked and seperated.
The side of the box with the writting has a angular crack which actually seperates the writting.
R.O.M. restores the box with all manner of skill so it can be publically shown.
If you are Odad Golan and involved with the packing of the Ossuary....are you glad it arrives broken?
Could there be others who are ..glad it is broken?

The documentary which aired a few months back on this was an eye opener...
Here..Palestinians root thru ancient Jewish burial sites like gophers...bones mean nothing..its the Ossuary's they want.
Then they sell them ..sell them..back to Jews!

Palestinians....and,...Make a buck from death;
Why am I not suprised : )

[brownie]

I guess I am ignorant of which scriptures state (or imply) that Mary remained a virgin. I've never been involved in the debate, and did not know that people believed that she remained a virgin.

[azhenfud]

You're right - the authenticity of the box serves absolutely no proof either way. If true, it only proves a man by the name of Joseph was a brother to a man named Jesus. If it's not authentic, it really discounts nothing but itself.

Those whose faith is securely in place, who believe Jesus was The Word Incarnate, will not - should not change their beliefs whether the thing is or isn't authentic.

[azhenfud]

"Joseph was a brother to a man named Jesus"

Sorry

James, son of Joseph, was a brother to a man named Jesus

Cut'n paste can be brutal.