Posted on 02/08/2018 5:04:29 PM PST by Simon Green
Another hypocrite outed.
I just finished reading a biography on Musk. It was not written by Musk and he actually didn’t want it published.
Musk doesn’t take a salary. By law he’s paid minimum wage but doesn’t cash the checks. Everything he has is invested in his companies. He borrows against the stock to pay his expenses. His interest in money is so he can fund ever bigger projects to benefit mankind.
His companies are successful due to extremely enthusiastic employees and customers, not subsidies. People who only focus on subsidies to satisfy their confirmation bias are missing out on one of the greatest American success stories of all time.
You’re delusional. “Junk science”? where? We’re talking about a real rocket, of serious size & capability, actually being launched a few days ago.
Yes, NASA faltered. That’s kinda the point. Faltered for decades. Took some “opportunist” (your term) to fill that gap by going pretty much from zero to reusable Saturn-scale rocket in a short time (that ain’t “junk science”, that’s brilliance).
Junk science in your state is your problem (unless your state is GA, then it’s ours). You’re ranting incoherently as you go from there into cap-and-trade taxes, healthcare, and other points totally unrelated to this thread.
I don’t know why you’re ranting about gov’t overspending. That’s kinda the point of SpaceX: both slashing the cost of big launches, AND get its funding out of gov’t coffers.
Do I approve of the gov’t “subsidizing” Musk’s ventures?
Let’s make this quite clear:
If Musk is GETTING money from the gov’t (beyond simply being a customer), that’s bad.
If the gov’t is NOT TAKING money from Musk (and so he has more to spend on R&D), that’s good.
Tax cuts are good. Tax credits are tax cuts; they’re good. I’m all for tax cuts. AFAIK that’s what Musk is leveraging: lowered taxes, so he can throw more of his own money into R&D rather than having it confiscated for welfare queens. If anything, he’s a prime example of what happens when we stop the gov’t from taking so much money from the productive.
However he’s being “subsidized”, he’s producing more tax revenue as a result. The alleged $5B in “subsidies” he received has more than been paid back by his ventures. Heck, he himself paid $2.5B in taxes in 2016 alone.
Solyndra was “junk science” and “opportunism” and “overspending”. They set up shop, pocketed $millions, and disappeared.
Musk’s ventures are actually producing fruit. Tesla has a line of cars you can actually buy, roughly on par with their non-EV equivalents. SpaceX is making frequent deliveries to space, at attractive prices having slashed launch costs by some 90% thru serious technology advances.
Upshot:
Your gripe is with your legislators, not with Musk. If they’re gonna throw lots of tax BREAKS at him, I’m all for him accepting them.
If the gov’t stopped subsidizing him, Tesla/SpaceX/etc would still be producing.
You’re yelling at the wrong people.
Glad someone else understands.
Musk IS brilliant. Any sensible research into him shows he has a deep understanding of the science and is seriously devoted to a lofty goal which will greatly advance science, engineering, and humanity. He’s leveraging what he legitimately can to earn the ENORMOUS sums needed to pull off his large-scale goals.
Very nice electric cars are being built at reasonable costs. (If you don’t want one, don’t buy one. I want one.)
Very good rockets are being launched at reasonable costs - actually astoundingly low costs, as reusability was practically unthinkable a couple years ago.
Hypocrite how?
Under Musk, commercial rocketry cut costs by something like 80% - and we’re not talking small loads, we’re up to 64 tons with Falcon Heavy. That’s not a “charlatan” at work.
As I was just reminded: Musk doesn’t take a salary. California COMPELS Tesla & SpaceX to pay him minimum wage, but he doesn’t cash the checks. The only money he personally makes out of the ventures comes from stocks, which are the result of other investors deciding that his ventures will actually amount to something. You’re free to think ill of him, but others are putting a LOT of money where their mouths are - and he’s actually getting amazing results.
“This happens on a ball?”
Um...yes. Duh.
Thing about “faked in a Hollywood studio”: to fake the Moon landings would actually require 21st century CGI. As Musk noted (and I agree, having been close to CGI since early on): we know it wasn’t faked precisely because it looks so bad.
The junk science behind the Tesla facade: AGW. That’s patently obvious to tens of millions of the rest of us; why not YOU?
“Your gripe is with your legislators, not with Musk. If they’re gonna throw lots of tax BREAKS at him, I’m all for him accepting them.”
That logic is why half the population is on the government dole. “Incoherently:” To a moron. The problem here is self-evident from a Conservative perspective. Obviously you don’t see it and choose to be argumentative to defend your emotional attachment to Musk.
I stand behind my statements 100% and you fawning Tesla cheerleaders should really take a look in the mirror.
I don’t care if you have been on FR since 2000; you’re horribly conflicted and your back must hurt horribly with your head stuck way, way up there...
Are you senile or something?
Factor in subsidies and figure out the cost of a launch.
ID Ten T.
AGW has nothing to do with actually building a commercially viable EV.
AGW has nothing to do with actually building large-scale re-usable rockets.
Whether Musk personally thinks AGW is a thing has nothing to do with the science & engineering that he has pushed as far as he has - and if you can’t see the inherent value of organizing the creation of self-landing re-useable rockets, 3d-printed rocket engines, and 300+ mile EVs - then you’re too blinded by your pet biases and fierce intent to pin them on anyone you can.
It’s not even clear what statements you’re 100% behind. Most of what you wrote has nothing to do with this thread - rants about AGW, healthcare, etc? really? You can’t even articulate what your actual gripe with Musk is, yet somehow I’m evil because I articulate support for entrepreneurship, free market, scientific advancement, engineering marvels, and actual progress.
Yeah, you’re right in there with the “Falcon Heavy was faked” mindset.
Quick simple question:
When filing your income tax forms, do you take any deductions?
Straw, man.
The launch was a publicity stunt.
You’re right: It’s all about you.../s
Not straw man. It’s exactly the point.
You get legislature-approved tax credits (via mortgage interest deduction).
Musk gets legislature-approved tax credits (via EV, space, & other deductions).
In both cases, the legislature has decided that more good will come from letting the taxpayer keep more of his own earned income, for particular uses, than confiscating it for redistribution - so is allowed to keep that which otherwise would be confiscated as taxes.
It’s.
The.
Same.
Thing.
And since I contend taxes should be limited to what’s minimally & constitutionally obligated of the government, and realistically understand we’re not going to get massive across-the-board tax cuts any time soon, I’m all for implementing tax cuts/credits anywhere we can get them.
A billion-dollar publicity stunt? Considering how science, technology, employment, and economics was advanced by this launch, we certainly need more of these “publicity stunts”.
If he launched a 1 ton concrete block (like NASA did for test launches), would it be a publicity stunt? Have to launch the new rocket for the first time, nobody wants to put a serious payload on untested rockets, and something has to be launched as payload. So what if it’s something fun - like a car - instead of just a concrete block?
The thing is that some people have been poo pooing this launch because the center core booster was lost and Spaceman’s Tesla didn’t end up on the exact elliptical Mars to Sun orbit as intended, but I saw an interview with Musk prior to and after the launch where he said something to the effect of, “it would be a success as long as it lifts off and doesn’t blow up on the launch pad”. So as far as I can tell it was a great success and the side by side landing of the two booster rockets was spectacular.
Many people don’t remember or are unaware how many tests of the Atlas rocket either blew up on the launch pad or shortly after. That’s how it got the nickname the “At Last Rocket”.
Right. Perhaps rather than boost one man’s ego and represent a single company for all those tax dollars he’s using to get that rocket into flight, perhaps he should have ...
...ya know, I have a little saying for folks like you. My thought was interrupted by a biological process, stimulated by your perverse logic.
I may or may not return to finish my thought, but I have a request: Can you elaborate more on your Muskisms tomorrow morning? You’re the best fiber I’ve had in weeks.
He’s not using any tax dollars.
That’s the point.
Nobody _gave_ him the money.
He earned it.
The government didn’t confiscate it,
So he used it to do something good (cutting cost of space flight).
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