Posted on 12/15/2016 5:26:32 AM PST by jiggyboy
Slightly after midnight on Monday, police in Bakersfield, Calif., received a call concerning a man thought to be brandishing a weapon in a residential neighborhood.
Shortly after police arrived, 73-year-old Francisco Serna - who family members said was suffering from the early stages of dementia - walked out of his home and into his driveway. When Serna, who was unarmed, did not comply with officers' orders to remove his hands from his jacket pocket, one officer fired seven shots at him, killing him.
-- snip --
The 911 call came from a household on the block where Serna resided. A woman who lived there arrived home just after midnight. She was unpacking the car when Serna approached her.
Serna asked why she was at her house, according to Martin, and then asked if he could get into the car. Throughout this conversation, Serna kept one hand in his pocket.
The woman noticed a black- or brown-handled object sticking out of hispocket that she took to be a gun. She rushed inside and told her boyfriend, who called the police.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
No, not as presented. I’m not saying the cops are right. What I am trying to do is get you into the mindset of your typical cop. You have a “man with a gun” call. Do you really wanna just walk up to the person? Probably not. Not a great way to make it to retirement. Besides there’s a lot left out in this story. Did the cops tell the guy to show them his hands? how many times? How far away was the guy? 30 feet? 20 feet? Less? How dark was it? Was it cloudy? Was there a moon? Were there street lights? What was the guys overall demeanor? Passive? Aggressive? Confused? Angry? Doesn’t mention any of that. This could well be a “bad shoot”. I don’t rule it out But at this point I simply do not know enough about the situation to come to a conclusion. And frankly, neither do you. Anything at this point would be a “knee jerk” reaction at best. At the very least it is a tragedy. What is needed is to figure out whether it’s an unfortunate set of circumstances or a crime. And I would like also like to make sure that the press reporting it is doing so honestly and truthfully, without any agendas-on either side of the equation.
CC
Here we go again.
The cops are the ones knowingly carrying a deadly weapon.
The cops are the ones in charge.
The cops decide who lives or dies.
The cops are public servants, or are they?
The cops have a duty to not shoot to preserve their lives. IMHO.
That would insure you are not a public servant.
The shoot would be for public safety.
Was anyone else in harms way?
Were the cops positioned so as to place themselves in harms way?
If so, bad positioning.
How long were the cops on scene before the shoot?
IMHO there needs to be much more processing going on before a gun is even drawn or we will continue to have unwarranted death by cop.
The public is at risk rather than the other way around.
A sane person might be moved to respond appropriately to every demand of a screaming cop who thinks every situation is life or death for them.
Not everyone is that sane, and so everyone is at risk unless you do precisely what they ask, and even then the risk is high for anyone in their sphere of influence. That needs to change. The higher risk should always be on the public servant.
Must have missed the part where it was established that the cops knew it was a crucifix. Perhaps you can enlighten us?
How do you know he was "obviously confused"? Please provide that information.
I’ve encounter many people, including medical professionals, who are terrified by dementia sufferers. That being said, I’m wondering about that call, too.
When asked by the dispatcher about the gun, the man said, "It looked like a revolver."
Then: "The resident felt that Mr. Serna had a firearm, however he did not see one," Martin said. "But by Mr. Serna's body language, he surmised Mr. Serna had a firearm."
Something doesn't add up.
Back when I was young, that is exactly what a policeman where I lived would have done.He would driven his car to close to where the guy was standing and talked to him man to man.But back then, a policeman was another member of the community. His job was to keep the peace. He respected us as human beings and we respected him as a human being. His family co-mingled with the other families in the community. He refereed an offered his advice in family disputes. He counselled, in various ways, the youth of the community when they strayed from the path of true and right and got them back on the right path. Many spent their entire careers with having to draw their gun in the line of duty. They were obeyed because they were respected. And they returned the respect. But that was then and this is now.
I’m not seeing where the cop knew it was a crucifix?
The family who lost an elderly loved one to the aforementioned rationale will be horrified that this shooting was justifiable merely because it was in keeping with current policies. Government will say, "At least the officers will go home to their families."
Yes, I know police are targets today as never before. I grew up in a police family and am personally shocked by everything that is going on. But the real bottom line here is that society is beginning to demand, in all areas, that government not be above the law that is demanded from the average person. If the average guy on the street shot an old man taking a cross out of his pocket they would be going to jail.
That cop must have continued shooting the guy after he was laying on the ground, dead...
I grew up in a police family. My father 'walked the beat' in the 50's and I can say truer words were never posted here. Sadly, police today are victims of their job's evolution as well as the citizenry are victims being policed. And, we have sunk to an 'either you're for us or against us' type mentality.
I believe things will get worse but it will not lead to things getting better.
Cops are out of control.
I disagree. Two cops were just shot yesterday in Georgia for just asking a guy to take his hands out of his pockets. I think they have a very dangerous job and they are getting killed right and left.
No I do not. I have on a number of time pointed out where I thought cops were wrong. In the future please do not post to me or about me, it is obvious you are neither factual or reasonable. And referring to some idyllic past where cops were all wonderful guys who just jumped out of a Norman Rockwell painting is misleading as well. “Back in the day” as they say cops were like they are now- Most of them were decent guys. A few were assholes, just like it is today. You know why? Cops have the same problem as every other job- they gotta hire from the human race. Due to the inherent breakdown in society cops jobs are tougher today too. I for one fail to understand the people on FR who call others “jackboot lickers” for reserving judgement on something until more is known. It seems you’re acting out of a bias as much as those who would excuse all police misbehavior categorically(as you accuse me of doing). I at least try to reserve judgeent based on facts presented. But I waste my electrons on trying to reason with you. Have a nice life.
CC
I live in Bakersfield. I’ve had dealings with the cops here.
They’re tough but no where near out of control.
Now, look at the actual facts as reported.
Woman accosted outside her house at around midnight. She saw something that looked like the grip of a pistol sticking out of the guy’s pants pocket. Her boyfriend calls the cops.
Cops come. Dumbass refuses to remove his hand from his pocket that has the object that witnesses thought might be a pistol.
Cop is not psychic. Cop is not paid to be a martyr to your or any other persons feelz.
Dumbass didn’t comply and there was absolutely no reason not to assume the dumbass was armed.
Sounds a whole lot like suicide by cop to me.
But, of course, with all those around here who’ve gotten on their knees to wrap their lips around the BLM propaganda spigot to suck down and swallow, without thought, whatever is pumped into them, no wonder so many jump to the “but mah feelz!!!” with no attempt at thinking it through at all.
Not intending to hijack this thread but,
We are dealing with 2 parents with dimentia and it is sooo... sad. Medical technology can keep our bodies alive well beyond what nature intended.
Blessings come in many forms.
I like you. Trying to deal with stuff using logic and reason. Who’da thunk it?
CC
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