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Against the wall: from Mexico to Calais, why the idea of division is taking hold
Guardian UK ^ | 16 September 2016 | Andrew Solomon

Posted on 09/18/2016 3:22:00 PM PDT by Lorianne

It can feel disorienting to contemplate borders as negotiable rather than fixed. History demonstrates that there are always people who wish to expand their borders to include additional territory, and those who wish to close them to preclude immigration. Old maps reflect constantly evolving political divisions; those territories that coincide with geological formations can have a reassuring aura of permanence, but even these can be breached. Walls seem to take over from geography, and DonaldTrump isn’t the only one to contemplate their fortressing singularity.

Britain is planning to build “the great wall of Calais”, as it has been named in some areas of the press, in the hope of reducing illegal immigration into the UK, though it seems likely the wall will simply make refugees adopt a more circuitous route. François Guennoc of Auberge des Migrants, a French aid group working in Calais, has said, “When you put walls up anywhere in the world, people find ways to go round them. It’s a waste of money. It could make it more dangerous for people, it will push up tariffs for people smugglers and people will end up taking more risks.” There has likewise been talk of a wall between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. And many citizens, post-Brexit, want to build a trade wall (a metaphoric rather than concrete structure) to protect local manufacturing.

(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
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1 posted on 09/18/2016 3:22:00 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne

The globalist scum are panicking.

Happy times!


2 posted on 09/18/2016 3:28:18 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Make phone calls. Knock on doors. Write letters. Or wake to a nightmare in November)
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To: Lorianne

Who benefits from a world without borders, and how do they benefit?

It’s hard to imagine those liberals with “white guilt” being both motivated enough and stupid enough to bring the entire world down to the level of Africa. It’s hard to imagine the Chamber of Commerce types being short-sighted enough to destroy the country their children and grandchildren have to live in. Are they all stupid, do they expect to be in permanently safe gated and protected enclaves, or is there some logical reason for accepting the globalist future they are trying to force on us?

I don’t have good answers, but I’m hoping someone on FR does.


3 posted on 09/18/2016 3:29:31 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Somebody who agrees with me 80% of the time is a friend and ally, not a 20% traitor. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: RKBA Democrat

François Guennoc of Auberge des Migrants, a French aid group working in Calais...is a ####.


4 posted on 09/18/2016 3:34:57 PM PDT by dp0622 (The only thing an upper crust conservative hates more than a liberal is a middle class conservative)
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To: Lorianne

Of course division is taking hold. Did you libtards hold hands with us rightwingers for the past 8 years? You didn’t. You jackholes were divisive in your tone and karma is coming back at ya’.


5 posted on 09/18/2016 3:35:06 PM PDT by max americana (fired every liberal in our company at every election cycle..and laughed at their faces (true story))
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To: Pollster1

"The trouble with Scotland...is that it's full of Scots."

"If we can't get them out, we'll breed them out."

It's a variation of this strategy. It's a long term plan to eliminate white people by flooding their countries with non whites who generally reproduce at a much faster rate.

6 posted on 09/18/2016 3:37:46 PM PDT by chris37 (How do you make Republicans turn on their own candidate? Sneak up behind them and say "Boo".)
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To: Lorianne

My favorite line from the column-—”But there is no question that governance and business objectives are realised best by people speaking a common language.”


Obama knew this.that’s why He chose Caroline Kennedy as ambassador to Japan-——her fluency in the Japanese language./s

(She even stumbles with English LOL)


7 posted on 09/18/2016 3:39:25 PM PDT by Mears
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To: Pollster1

Communists, fascists, maoists all believe that their philosophy is absolutely correct. It’s a religion for them. The same with globalists. They remain convinced that globalism is the One True Way, notwithstanding prodigious amounts of evidence to the contrary.


8 posted on 09/18/2016 3:41:02 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Make phone calls. Knock on doors. Write letters. Or wake to a nightmare in November)
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To: Lorianne

Israel has a wall, and it’s effective. He didn’t mention it.


9 posted on 09/18/2016 3:49:06 PM PDT by cdcdawg
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To: Lorianne

Because it’s better than killing everyone that was never invited.


10 posted on 09/18/2016 3:50:40 PM PDT by The Toll
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To: Lorianne

As with many things the Chinese were there first!

Look at the magnificent wall they built!


11 posted on 09/18/2016 3:51:23 PM PDT by DUMBGRUNT (Looks like it's pretty hairy.)
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To: RKBA Democrat

I’ve met and understood communists. I have never met a globalist who could articulate why their ideas were good.


12 posted on 09/18/2016 3:55:23 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Somebody who agrees with me 80% of the time is a friend and ally, not a 20% traitor. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Lorianne

Those who oppose a wall live in gated communities. They build walls around their mansions. The Usuper in the WH has a high fence.
He just gave Mexico 75 million of your tax dollars for their southern border wall, Congress did nothing, as usual.
http://sourcesnews.com/dems-repubs-both-shocked-when-they-learn-why-obama-just-gave-mexico-75-million/
Their actions belie their lying words.
Look at what they do, not what they say.
They don’t want a wall because they know it will work.


13 posted on 09/18/2016 4:00:11 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives.)
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To: Pollster1

“It’s hard to imagine the Chamber of Commerce types being short-sighted enough to destroy the country their children and grandchildren have to live in. “

Good questions. I have some theories:

(1) They are convinced that if they make enough money, they and their descendants will always be able to buy their way out of any and all social problems, including leaving the country if necessary.

(2) They figure society is sinking anyway, so they might as well get as much as they can out of it first, again, under the assumption that money will get them out of any jam.

(3) Normalcy Syndrome 1: They cannot imagine things getting really bad, or collapsing. The thought being that Reagan was convinced that a national debt of $4 Trillion or so would collapse the country. It didn’t. Then the $9 Trillion of debt when Obama took office didn’t collapse the country. Now the $20 Trillion of debt still hasn’t collapsed the country. Therefore $40 Trillion, $60 Trillion, or anything higher will still not collapse the country.

(4) Normalcy Syndrome 2: The country is awash in immigrants, both legal and illegal, with roughly 15% foreign-born. Nothing much has really changed - so what harm would 30% be? Or 60%. The concept of foreign-born people mostly voting for a Democrat Party that is getting more and more radicalized, to the part of making us a One-Party State under their iron fist is simply beyond their capability to imagine. There will always be a (relatively) non-corrupt and free system with two viable parties...because there always has been.

(5) How could they not love America and our ways? We are so perfect that anyone, from anywhere in the world, with any background (such as be-headers) would just love living in our society as it exists today that they would simply and quickly blend-in, just as the Europeans did for hundreds of years (through about 1920). The fact that the new arrivals now have very different backgrounds, with many dead-set on turning this country into an ISIS-type hell-hole is simply something they cannot accept - after all, they know many Muslims, all of whom are hard working, friendly, very smart, and seem to be living the American Dream. Therefore their kids will be the same and the newer ones coming in will be the same...and when they hear the radicalized Imams at the mosque and see them on satellite TV, they’ll all laugh it off, as just another crazed preacher.

(6) Revenge: They despise our side so much that they’ll worry about picking up the pieces and finding a way to survive after they crush us. They figure they will be in power, or at least have close connections to those that are in power, that they will be taken care of. It doesn’t phase them that by 1932 (or so) every leading Bolshevik that was part of Lenin’s revolution had been terminated by Stalin. They just cannot imagine that others might come in a seize power right out of their hands...which will happen. [this more explains the hard-left, than the business interests, but I figured I’d put it here].

That’s my take.


14 posted on 09/18/2016 4:15:26 PM PDT by BobL (If Hillary wins, there WILL NOT be another contested election, for decades - think AMNESTY)
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To: Lorianne
Here is a picture of the border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic. The Dominicans put up a wall between the two for some reason. Can you guess why?


15 posted on 09/18/2016 4:16:38 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
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To: BobL

Thank you. I will give your ideas a lot of thought.


16 posted on 09/18/2016 4:21:45 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Somebody who agrees with me 80% of the time is a friend and ally, not a 20% traitor. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: RKBA Democrat

Judeo-Christians also believe their philosophy is absolutely correct. It’s a religion for them.

The difference is that Judeo-Christian view of government is based in Joshua’s statement:

Choose you this day whom you will serve. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

That is the distinction between Muslims and Christians, and between the leftist secular religions and Christians.


17 posted on 09/18/2016 4:25:12 PM PDT by spintreebob
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To: Pollster1

You’re welcome - I’ve thought long and hard about the subject.


18 posted on 09/18/2016 4:40:33 PM PDT by BobL (If Hillary wins, there WILL NOT be another contested election, for decades - think AMNESTY)
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To: Lorianne
people find ways to go round them. It’s a waste of money.

No, it's not. It reduces their numbers. Put it this way: If walls didn't work, you wouldn't be against them, would you?

It could make it more dangerous for people

Which people? The ones trying to bust the border? Maybe they'd face less danger by not trying to sneak into someone else's country. You're just telling us again that walls work--and you don't like that.

19 posted on 09/18/2016 4:45:23 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: Lorianne

Various governments insist upon continuing to bring in immigrants that are openly hostile to the citizens, and not only that but the economic situation doesn’t warrant bringing in more people to begin with. It’s the same story in the US, England, France and Germany.


20 posted on 09/18/2016 4:49:04 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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