When the Government Lies: TWA Flight 800

American Thinker ^ | June 29, 2016 | Mark A. Hewitt

[Kaslin]

Years ago, in another lifetime, I flew the mighty F-4S Phantom II in the jet route structure. Several times I flew high enough for the engine exhaust to condense in the minus 60°F atmosphere. At 30,000 feet, I’d look in the mirrors on the canopy bow and watch a pair of thick contrails swirl behind me, laying down a set of unmistakable tracks proving that I was no longer just turning jet fuel into jet noise but I was leaving a trail visible for all to see for miles and miles. Some people on the ground, primarily those on the political left, have suggested my contrails were actually “chemtrails,” that they were some wild Petri dish concoction consisting of chemical or biological agents that were being deliberately sprayed for some sinister purpose, like a Bond villain, on an ignorant general public. I was shocked to learn that somehow the enlisted guy who refueled my jet with JP-5 was in on the conspiracy and was dispensing some nefarious additional chemicals from his R-11 fuel truck. When I became aware of the “chemtrail controversy” years later, it proved there are some strange people in America. That when you don’t have enough facts or understanding of the basic science of condensation, I guess you make up something. Who doesn’t love a good conspiracy when the facts are just boring?

[RayChuang88]

Bottom line: TWA800 normally would have been at 19,000 feet where it was hit. No terrorist would lie in wait at that position with missiles not even effective to 15,000 feet. ML/NJ

Hence my suggestion it may have been hit by a 9K33 Osa radar-guided missile that can intercept targets flying as high as 40,000 feet. Because the 9K33 system missiles are radar-guided, the missile would far more likely hit the center of the plane from a ground launch than hitting one of the engines.

[DesertRhino]

That’s navy ship. And anyway, there were several navy ships in the area. The ones others accuse of shooting it down with a standard missile or something.

You expect us to believe a Soviet band AAA radar went active off long island, surrounded by Navy destroyers, performed active guidance on the missile.... and nobody noticed?

Or do you believe the Navy saw that, and kept it silent for some bizzaro reason. They would have been the heroes of the world if they saw that. I’m going out on a limb and guessing you have never been on the crew of a warship.

[Hulka]

Not a mishap investigation report.

[Hulka]

Shaped warhead charges are not 360, neither are an SAM warhead (expanding rods). Those detonations actually result in a donut pattern.

[Hulka]

Oh, and an aircraft do not expand 360 as aerodynamic pressures, warped and shredded parts, asymmetric thrust and errant flight control inputs result in a wildly irregular patter.

[Hulka]

I met and discussed this actual subject with him.

He was well into Jesse Ventura territory where there are layers upon layers of conspiracies. Nice guy but not grounded in reality.

I explained missile performances, engagement envelopes and such like that. . .but he was insistent that except for un-named sources on a ship, they all were ordered to remain silent.

Hundreds of Navy men, from enlisted to officers, cannot be ordered into silence (that would be an illegal order and if followed, they would be prosecuted). They would talk and there would have been no way for the crew to remain silent from a legal standpoint to a moral standpoint, as no one is going to remain silent after “knowing” we killed so many innocents. This is especially true for young single enlisted, they are talkers, generally, because they will rightfully call out illegal/immoral behavior of officers.

[Hulka]

That is very true.

Well said.

[ml/nj]

Hundreds of Navy men, from enlisted to officers, cannot be ordered into silence

The Captain of the Eastwind Airlines plane that was opposite direction and nearly level with TWA800 when it was destroyed made this same point to me. He was a Navy many himself.

I asked him what he knew about the USS Liberty. His demeanor completely changed. He told me he had a buddy on that ship. He knew that they had all been told to go along with our government's story.

ML/NJ

[SaveFerris]

I saw the Paris-bound TWA 747’s during 1994-1995. I figure it well could have been the plane, perhaps a few times.

I assumed they went from St. Louis to NYC and then on to Paris but never checked the routes so I could be wrong.

I just know I saw a TWA 747 going to Paris at Lambert nearly every week that I flew TWA (less than 1/2 my time as I usually was on Southwest).

[Hulka]

Interesting, but please note the crew still talked. . .as per your friend.

[ml/nj]

Hundreds of Navy men, from enlisted to officers, cannot be ordered into silence

I should add that there were obviously Naval assets in the area that evening. Have you ever heard anyone who participated speak to what they were doing in that area right around the time TWA800 went down?

There were "hundreds" as you put it. Why haven't a few of them come forward?

ML/NJ

[ml/nj]

as per your friend

Just so you know, I only met him a few times when I discovered that we regularly stayed at the same hotel. I'm a private pilot, and pilots like to take to other pilots so we did.

ML/NJ

[Hulka]

There are many conspiracy theory people that say there are hundreds that came forward but were told to be quiet and ignored.

Thing is, try and shut-up hundreds of civilians. . .holy cow, not gonna happen.

The conspiracy theorists claim government thugs intimidated the witnesses into silence. Hundreds scared and shut-up, knowing they supposedly saw a US asset shoot-down a civilian jet. . .hardly credible.

Mishap investigators interview as many as they can and they use logic and facts to determine if the “witness” statement is credible or not.

A witness claiming they saw a 4’-long flat-colored non-reflective missile (well after motor burn-out) impact a jet miles and miles away), that is not credible and dismissed.

They may genuinely perceived something, as the mind does fill in the gaps, but the facts speak otherwise.

[Hulka]

I received my Private license when I was 17. . .went onto a being a USAF fighter pilot (A-10 and F-15E). We could have a few beers and swap stories. . .professional pilot or not, we ALL have stories.

[rlmorel]

This is perhaps a weakness of mine, and I am aware of it. I simply don’t believe 350 men aboard a US Naval ship responsible of the deaths of innocent Americans would all be a party to the conspiracy, even involuntarily.

Having grown up as a military brat, and did a tour in myself aboard a warship, I simply don’t see that happening, even if the truth of the matter is that I personally cannot bring myself to accept the truth of it.

I understand craven human behavior, and I just will not believe that out of a crew of 350, not a single one would crack out of pure torture of conscience. I cannot imagine the ship would come into port, and dozens of FBI/CIA/DIA/Whatever come on board who are all privy to what has been done, and they get each crewman individually and put the screws to them to stay quiet.

When they come into port, would their families meet them? Would they be told not to show up? Would they stand on the docks for hours, as each crewman is processed and has to sign a form in blood or something. And not one of them would meet with their families, but instead of a joyous reunion they get someone who is so tortured and conflicted at least one spouse doesn’t completely panic and blurt out something like “John! What is wrong? What’s the matter?”

Or, that they would all be given a large sum of money. Or both money and a threat.

I simply don’t see it. Tell me someone with a shoulder launched missile, a cargo ship at sea with a missile, whatever, did it...okay. I can buy it.

But I won’t believe 350 American sailors would be party to it and keep the code of silence. But that is just me, perhaps my own weakness.

[TXnMA]

"What about low-altitude trails where jets trail from areas on the wing that aren’t engine-mounts, or the trails falls from these heights in a shower ?"

1. Go to school.

2. Learn the thermodynamic implications of "PV=nRT".

3. Take off your tinfoil hat.

4. Take off your "Chemtrails Mask".

5. Grow up.

[Swordmaker]

It struck me that the Center fuel tank, pictured, was imploded inward. I spent a couple of years when I was a kid blowing things up, I noticed that explosions in confined spaces always blow out.

Do you mean this photo I posted years ago and last week?

The Center Wing Tank is also located quite a few feet afterward from the break where the nose broke off. In addition, the Center Wing Tank is not just a tank stuffed between the Wings. It is constructed out of the five spars that connect the wings to the fuselage. It is essentially a box girder that provides the main strength of the both wings in torsion and contraction as they flex in flight and if it were compromised, it's likely the wings would fold or come off. Were the Center Wing Tank to explode, do you think it would be possible for the wings to stay on the plane or take the strains of the so-called Zoom Climb postulated by both the CIA and NTSB cartoons where the crippled aircraft gained large amounts of altitude in a mere 18 seconds? Boeing says that at the altitude the aircraft was flying under normal conditions and lift, with 100% thrust, the maximum rate of climb is 3800 feet per minute, yet the CIA claims the crippled aircraft did THAT in 18 seconds with engines at idle (when the signal from the cockpit is lost per Boeing)! The NTSB was more conservative, claiming only 1200 to 1500 feet in those 18 seconds. How did the wings take that strain, especially with the engines at idle???

[Hulka]

Well stated.

[Celerity]

Go to school.

2.Learn the thermodynamic implications of “PV=nRT”.

3.Take off your tinfoil hat.

4.Take off your “Chemtrails Mask”.

5.Grow up.

I have all of those bases covered, but please - Educate me. Tell me about the thermodynamic implications of PV-nRT.

[TXnMA]

T (Temperature) is directly proportional to P (Pressure).

When P drops, T drops accordingly.

When T drops below the dewpoint, condensation occurs.

I have actually created a ...what you would call a "chemtrail"... -- by throwing a stone -- on a cool, humid morning -- with a leather sling, like David used in the Bible...

~~~~~~~~~~~

Trying to turn 8th grade physics into a "Chemtrails"Conspiracy is an exercise for the feebleminded.