Posted on 02/14/2016 12:50:31 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
It’s not every day that anti-war groups find themselves cheering on leading Republican presidential candidates. But, then again, this hasn’t been a presidential campaign that’s stuck to the script.
The morning after he called the Iraq War a huge misstep and argued that President George W. Bush lied to get the country into it, Donald Trump has earned praise from, of all places, Code Pink, the group best known for protesting the Iraq War and subsequent military interventions.
“I watched the debate last night and LOVED IT,†Code Pink co-founder Medea Benjamin said in an email.
(Excerpt) Read more at huffingtonpost.com ...
What if Bush had lied?
Just because your enemy states a truth doesn’t mean you are obligated to untruth.
You are actually admitting you are using Carter’s intellectual musings to swear off Trump.
I’m supposed to carry on a conversation with you after that?
It’s just not worth it, if you are willing to admit that that kind of judgment.
All the best to you, but really...
The big problem with the far left would be much less if, indeed, they DID care about people dying.
If they did, we would see a much nicer far left. They are hypocrites, caring only if certain people, who are convenient to them if they are protested as victims, die.
But again that’s what you GET out of a movement based solely on feelings, and that’s why it is so bad when what would be the right, begins to sing that same song in a different key.
Great ‘friends’ you’ve got there, Donald.
A letter was sent out looking like it came from Cruz’s senate office. On the outside it read, “Check inclosed”.
Turns out it was a dummy check written to Cruz’s campaign for $45.00.
Just trickery to get people to look inside, and dishonest.
It’s superficial... because Carter likes it, it is supposed to be bad? Since when has truth and fact been a one dimensional thing?
Malleability being good or bad depends on who is wielding the mallets. This does seem to be a warning, though. Since Trump is, in a way, malleable, the right had better try something more constructive than just smashing Trump to pieces, because if he survives in spite of it, his agenda is going to look lefty just by default.
Not a good thing. It ought to be apologized for.
In the old days, adopting our ideals was a good thing.
Today it’s malleable.
It’s like the husband whose wife comes home with a new sexy outfit from Victoria’s Secret. They guy really likes it, but when she tells him it was $0.14 cents over budget, he makes her take it back.
Sometimes Conservatives don’t realize they have a gift horse looking them in the face.
No.
But the attempt was cute none the less.
Trump appears to be very unstable in both his personality and how swiftly he changes positions on issues. He does not have the core principles to lead this country. I wish he did, but he is truly more frightening in many ways than Obama ever could be. The stakes are so high not only for this country, but for the world.
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance
The Cruzies are passing Denial and moving to the Anger stage.
Latest Feb 14 South Carolina poll:
Trump 42
Cruz 20
Rubio 15
Kasich 9
Jeb 6
The trouble with that is, if it had been complete error for G.H.W. Bush (with assistance from allies, such as Britain) to have driven Saddam's military from Kuwait, that would have effectively allowed theft of an entire nation to occur unopposed.
There may have been an option to do so, then, and my own first initial instincts at that time did have me recoiling from idea of the U.S. intervening militarily.
The fact is though, the decision to do so was made, and the task was carried out effectively, though not entirely lacking loss of lives of U.S. military. More than a few Iraqi soldiers died also, along with some number of Iraqi civilians, but that's what happens when leaders like Saddam refuse to back down and abandon continuation of their own criminality, when that criminality is blown up to nation-sized scale of measurement.
After Saddam's Iraqi military (and assorted Iraqi out-rider thieves and cut-throats) were forced out of Kuwait, and G.H.W. Bush (Bush 41) lost election to "the man from Hope" William Jefferson Clinton, during the entire 8 years of that succeeding U.S. presidential administration, there were so-called "no fly zones" within Iraq, policed by U.S. forces...
After some years of that, it began to be more painfully obvious to myself (and more than a few others who were paying attention, I take it) that United States military forces would eventually invade Iraq and overthrow Saddam Hussein.
The Clinton administration not only did nothing which would serve to prevent that eventuality, but were themselves major players in setting stage further for that to be inevitable outcome.
Does no one recall the nuclear weapons inspectors, the sanctions which were in place against Saddam, and all the game-playing Saddam indulged himself with, which also helped make eventual invasion of U'S. military forces be all but entirely inevitable?
Saddam had nuclear capabilities in the early 1980's. In 1981, the Israeli's bombed the hell out of a functional nuclear reactor within Iraq. Osirak.
Should the world blame Israelis? Should we condemn them for recognizing the threat a nuclear weaponized Saddam Hussein would have presented them?
Nearly two decades later, in December 1998, after years of "no fly zone" enforcement under Clinton, including more than a few air-to-ground military engagements in which the U.S. military struck ground radar sites and anti-aircraft weaponry within Iraq, Billy Jeff Clinton authorized Operation Desert Fox.
http://www.afhso.af.mil/topics/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=18632 "Fact sheet" recounting of particulars of the event, written by Capt Gregory Ball, USAFR, Ph.D.
Transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike
If people are going to lay blame at the feet of George H.W. Bush, there are logical reasons to lay just as much (and possibly even more) at the feet of Bill Clinton.
Those who may have bought into the Zippy-head from Kenya argument's (who used to say he was born in Kenya until he said he wasn't) that the George W. presidential administration had left a mess that he and his own people had to deal with, by the same logic that was asserted, would have to extend that same to apply to the "mess" which Clinton had left, and that W had to deal with, in ending results leaving what U.S. involvements with the nation known as Iraq to be as much or more the Democrat Party's "fault" as it is Republicans.
I can just hear the jaws drop (among the Democrats who have been taught to hate conservatives and Republicans, blaming all ills of the nation upon the latter pair of political categories) but it is true that after becoming elected, and then well into his second term in office -- if it be solely the fault of U.S. presidential administrations for how they do eventually react to world events, then it can be argued that Clinton, by his own acts (acts which he authorized) left the world and George W. Bush little to no choice in the matter, the tragic events of Sept. 11, 2001 also playing part in how the U.S. would react, and do so "badly".
The Clinton Administration had near-totally ignored what was going on within Afghanistan (after the U.S. had afforded some assistance to Afghani nationals, to fight the Russians long enough and hard enough to help convince the Russians (Soviets) to leave) other than to occasionally take note of it. The in-fighting and slaughter that went on among the Afghans being something of a daily news feature during the Clinton Administration...
We may as well blame Reagan (and Charlie Wilson and Gust Avrakotos) for opposing Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. We could point to that for having as an unintended, but possibly even then predictable by-product, an effect of strengthening Islamic religious radicalism (which often translates quite immediately & directly into secular, worldly realm effects).
Yet if we were to re-think and second-guess that entire affair, if we had not assisted the so-called mujahideen in Afghanistan, would the setting and background been in place (within the Soviet Union) for one of Reagan's most decisively influential historical moments; "Mr. Gorbechev, open this gate, Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" ?
Sort of like it has been said about "capitalism", I will say at this point that the United States has the worst political system and philosophy in the world -- EXCEPT FOR everybody else!
Look just a few posts back... consider HOW and WHY Trump has been showing such a dynamic face.
It’s because he has been pursuing exactly the strategy he said he would pursue.
This is a huge door of opportunity for the right, if it would only stop cussing at it long enough to see. He’ll accommodate you folks, but you probably will have an easier job of it if you channel a little Dale Carnegie style.
Well we really shouldn’t be resting on our laurels, not even those of “least bad.”
I’m not “swearing off” Trump, and you would know that if you actually wanted to read what I am saying.
I have never supported Trump in the primaries and have always stated that I would vote for him in the general election were he the nominee. I stand by that. Trump is far preferred to anyone the Democrats would put up, but he isn’t my favorite in the Republican race.
So don’t start with a false premise that I am “swearing off” Trump.
Carter was not endorsing Trump, he was asked if he had the choice between Trump and Cruz, who he would prefer in the White House. He said Trump for the reason that Trump had proven himself malleable in the past, while Cruz had not.
That should worry you a little bit. It should worry you that your choice of candidate is seen, even by his opponents, as someone who changes views when it suits him.
The fact that you have such blind faith in Trump worries me.
So, to be clear, is it your position that Bush lied?
Here are the things we won:
1. We redeemed America’s paper tiger status described by Bin Laden in the aftermath of the Clinton Presidency. America is willing to fight and die for freedom— as has been the case since the inception of our Republic.
2. We defeated Saddam Hussein and established a deterrent basis for all other global enemies.
3. We caused Libya to end and turnover its chemical and nuclear weapons program.
4. We galvanized a global alliance against terrorism that includes more than 60 nations and is still active today.
5. We established a military presence in the Middle East from which we could surveil and launch further attacks against our enemies. [this was forfeited by the current administration]
6. We upheld our promises in diplomacy which added to our soft power credibility.
7. We demonstrated to the world that we are by far the most powerful military in the world. We are willing to use that military.
8. We removed the rhetorical and military actions of Saddam that we’re designed to impugn and mock our global standing— shooting at our planes— publicly mocking our global leadership.
9. We removed from power the world’s first genocidaire to use chemical weapons against his own people— the Kurds.
there are many other things we won. Importantly we temporarily defeated the ANTI AMERICAN WAR MOVEMENT. This movement seeks to guarantee that all acts of violence are secure and unopposed my American power.
Maps and details of weapons of mass destruction are best examined by reading volume three of the duelfer report first:
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-DUELFERREPORT/pdf/GPO-DUELFERREPORT-3.pdf
Of course even the NYT now admits the “bush lied” meme was a lie as well.
I believe both Doughboy and I have “sighted faith” and we would both change if Cruz uncorked something that actually did look significantly more godly. Which could always happen.
We’re projecting at this point to the probable results based on the way we commonly see the world go, including, unfortunately, the “Christian” world. If a Christian steps into the limelight being an ass, something is probably getting at him which traditionally has not given up easily (as Christ might have put it, it needs prayer and fasting).
We gained a bunch of chesty thumping, but how well was God served... I’d like to see an evaluation along THOSE lines.
We can chesty thump and still fall in our pride.
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