Carter: Navigation error may have led to Gulf incident with Iran

Stars and Stripes ^ | 1/15/16 | Baldor and Burns

[pabianice]

TAMPA, Florida — Defense Secretary Ash Carter said Thursday it appears a navigational error caused the crews of two Navy boats to stray into Iranian waters in the Persian Gulf, where they were detained overnight by Iran and released.

"It does appear — the information that they have given us and through their commanders — that they did stray accidentally into Iranian waters due to a navigation error," Carter said in an interview in Miami with Fusion network. Later, he flew to Tampa to meet with leaders of U.S. Central Command, which oversees the U.S. military in the Middle East.

[Night Hides Not]

A Lieutenant in the Navy is an 0-3 in case you forgot.

Thanks, but I knew that, which makes it even worse, IMHO.

[Toespi]

This is ridiculous. We used to boat the Great Lakes, with our Searay aft cabin. I did all of the chart plotting, radar, and GPS, BUT on extended trips in unfamiliar water, I manually charted the route as well as the electronics and if weather was questionable, did a dead reckoning every thirty minutes. I would set alarms for areas of concern, and as we went north I knew exactly when we entered Canadian water. It was good equipment but totally remedial in comparison to what the Navy has. My husband captained the boat........that’s right I am a woman and where did I learn all this??? A twelve week advanced power squadron class, and a lot of practice and reading. So they want us to believe that not one sailor on those two boats had any idea how to navigate without electronics? They want us to believe that they did not have advanced notice or alarms that they were close to breaching Iranian water and better yet, they were close enough to Farsi Island,if what they say is true, that they had to recognize landmarks. They want us to believe that there were ten totally incompetent people floating around in th north Persian Gulf with no idea what they were doing.

[1Old Pro]

Obama, Hillary et al believe Americans are idiots. No wonder Trump has appeal, we’re pulling our hair out screaming at these folks and they don’t hear us.

[Svartalfiar]

If I had to put on a tinfoil hat, I would say that the satellite that these boats use for navigation and detection were turned off and the Iranians were alerted to the position of the American boats.

It wouldn't just be satellite. most navigational stuff uses a triangulation of three different satellites, and will usually look for up to 7 or even more for backup/higher accuracy.

[sport]

Great minds think along the same lines, don’t they?

[Night Hides Not]

It's possible we met somewhere along the way. I went through OBC starting in July of 76. I volunteered as an augmentee to our sister battalion in Mannheim for REFORGER 77 (Big Red One). They didn't know what do with the Chaparrals either...lol. I enjoyed the experience, which contrasted greatly with air base defense. It made me a better platoon leader, too.

I really enjoyed the independence. We were 45 miles from Battalion HQ, and 60+ miles from Group.

I had more XO time as the Ad/Log XO in Todendorf the summer of 79. The BC had marital problems, and hightailed it back to Spangdahlem every chance he could. That left me in charge most of the time. My NCOs and I knew from the outset that if we did our jobs right, we'd have to work maybe 4 days a week.

Lutjenburg is awesome during the summer. I never saw a greater per capita population of newly divorced women in my life...lol. As the only Americans for 200 miles, we were a big hit.

[neocon1984]

I suspect that you are correct.

The Iranians figured out how to hack into some of our naval navigation systems. When the USN makes a budget request for more money to counter cyber warfare, we will have the answer.

[dfwgator]

Obama, Hillary et al believe Americans are idiots.

They're right.

[Mastador1]

Okay, it’s not that our sailors are incompetent, it’s that our equipment is shit, that’s good to know. So can we please stop buying our equipment from the Chicoms.

[beelzepug]

Actually an O-3. Or did you really MEAN zero? ;o)

[ebshumidors]

A Navy Lieutenant is an O-3. Not a noob.

[Feckless]

Never give a compass to a LT....

Just sayin'

[Cuttnhorse]

I was on Swift Boats in Nam...very unlikely that this was a navigational error considering the island is in the middle of the gulf.

I could believe it if it were some close-in island among a bunch of other islands...that is a piloting error, not a nav error.

Geez, on our boats we had radar and a depth sounder and that was it...can only imagine the types of GPS they must have these days.

I’m not buying it.

[armydawg505]

I think you got my “drift.”

[Cuttnhorse]

So until I hear otherwise from some of my buddies still in, I'm going with joyride.

Interesting take. I was on Swift Boats in Nam and it would be difficult to describe all the stupid things that happened to boats on patrol.

When a boat returned from a three-day patrol, the off-going crew spent many hours cleaning the boat for turn over to the next crew. One genius officer-in-charge decided to anchor the boat in shallow water so the crew could stand on the bottom and scrub down the sides...well, the tide went out and the boat and crew were stranded which of course caused mobilization of about 6-boats to guard the stranded one until the tide came back in.
That little incident was not well received in Saigon.

[armydawg505]

Thats true.

[Cuttnhorse]

Both boats do not have navigation.

I would be interested in how you know this?
From the video I saw, both boats do indeed have radar, which is used for navigation and piloting. I would also be amazed if both do not have a GPS chart plotter. This is not an expensive piece of equipment...heck, 15-foot fishing boats have chart plotters these days.

[armydawg505]

My OBC started in January 77 and I was in Germany by July, Swachbach outside Nurnberg. 2/29th ADA. I was also in Todendorf that same summer you were there, dont remember when we had gunnery that summer but we always looked forward to going. I was on advanced party one year with a hell raising young NCO so we partied in Lutjenburg as well. The only RE
FORGER we did was the 1979 Winter REFORGER where we froze our butts off until the thaw came and it ended early. I left there on July 5, 1980 for the advanced course, airborne school and the assignment at Ft Campbell. I lived in Nurnberg, right downtown in an walk up apartment, was single and knew all the party bars in the old town.

[armydawg505]

Bad spelling, it was Schwabach.

[Night Hides Not]

I was a regular at Club 69 in Lutjenburg, it was the only disco in town. When the BC was in town, I was out of sight most of the time. I spent two days a week driving back and forth to Bremerhaven, where we received our support. There was meal money to turn in, visits with the Motor Officer and other agencies to make sure they were happy with us.

When the BC was out, it was more of a challenge, as I usually would shadow the Battalion Cdr. LTG Jay Garner was a Bn Cdr back then (2/60 ADA, Ramstein), you could tell he was admired by his soldiers. He'd later go on to serve as the #2 diplomat in Iraq after Saddam was booted. He didn't last long, as his attitude was "let's give the country back to the Iraqis ASAP...it's their country." Too bad, I think the outcome would have been better.

I also got a couple of trips to Crete out of the deal. I think what I remember most fondly were the drives home from work. When I reached the town of Urzig, the Mosel Valley was usually visible for 10 miles in each direction. Whatever stress I was carrying was gone before I reached the road junction that took me home to Traben-Trarbach.

Traben-Trarbach: