Waco police detective named foreman of grand jury that may hear Twin Peaks cases

www.wacotrib.com ^ | Wednesday, July 8, 2015 6:01 pm | TOMMY WITHERSPOON

[JJ_Folderol]

A Waco police detective was selected Wednesday to preside over a new McLennan County grand jury that could be the panel that considers the Twin Peaks shootings.

[Smokin' Joe]

Just how many of those ten (10) rounds fired by LEOs were fired in full auto or burst mode?

Ten rounds now? I really must try harder to keep up. Recently, it was 12 rounds the police claimed they fired, likely semi-auto, rifles with decent sights, from good positions.

Any word on which of the dead/wounded was shot with what?

[Ethan Clive Osgoode]

Those “accused” have the right to know the charges brought against them and to see the testimony against them by their accusers. OR??

These gangland nutriders operate the same way they imagine law enforcement does. They are describing their own behaviour and tendencies. But what is there to expect from people who roam internet forums defending criminal gangs?

[Ethan Clive Osgoode]

I am glad that there are some here that detest the OMG killers

This Bandidos gang member recently murdered another biker in a Texas biker bar. He had help from his biker buddies. These are the people that the nutriders support.

[wastoute]

So, if I get this properly, there was more evidence to arrest everyone at 0bama’s inauguration than 180 people at Twin Peaks.

[Cboldt]

I don't think anybody bristles at the arrest of people who were observed shooting and/or throwing punches. Obama's inauguration may have had a few of those too.

And I don't think anybody bristles at the arrest of people for conspiracy, when there is evidence of conspiracy. That's pretty common too, see wannabe terrorists who were planning to bomb, or shoot up, or mentally-twisted kids who plan and agree to harm people in a school, and so on and so forth.

What's interesting (but garden variety common on FR) is that some people don't bristle at the arrest of people without evidence to support the accusation.

-- there was more evidence to arrest everyone at 0bama's inauguration than 180 people at Twin Peaks. --

As alluded to above, it's a mixed bag. The law is supposed to treat each person as an individual, even when the crime is one of association (it is criminal for an individual to aid or join groups that fedgov has identified as terrorist, e.g., Al Qeda, ISIS).

[Neoliberalnot]

I’ve lived in Iowa. They are very much like sheep. They are easily led with little individualism in their soul. They follow the old media crowd. Agriculture is big in Iowa but I don’t have anything against private enterprise. Oddly, I think it built the country.

[Neoliberalnot]

I’ve lived in Iowa. Few individuals and a large sheep mentality. They are quite subject to the old media manipulation.

[Smokin' Joe]

These gangland nutriders operate the same way they imagine law enforcement does. They are describing their own behaviour and tendencies. But what is there to expect from people who roam internet forums defending criminal gangs?

We have something called a Constitution and Bill of Rights. Either those Rights apply to everyone, or they don't. If they don't, yours may be revoked at the whim of TPTB at any time. Failure to stand up for the Rights of those you may not approve of may leave you in a similar position.

Even in the case where acts of individuals are clearly undefensible, they retain those Rights, and I would defend that. Maybe you don't get that aspect of this, or maybe you would pick and choose who would have those Rights--which incidentally, flies in the face of the Rule of Law and reverts to the Rule of Persons (AKA dictatorship).

Even the much spewed assumption that no one there was innocent (in matters where the facts have yet to be made evident, much less adjudicated) does not deny those accused their rights.

Many of us here, through personal experiences and the raw presumption of innocence find it highly unlikely that all 177 arrested were guilty of identical charges.

That presumption of innocence is also codified in the Bill of Rights.

When the Grand Jury is stacked in such a way as to produce indictments for the Law Enforcement organization(s) which may have violated the rights of many, if not all of those arrested, thus protecting those Law Enforcement organization(s) from legal redress on the behalf of those defendants, the conflict of interest is clear.

That anyone might ignore that apparent conflict of interest, especially the courts, is a matter for concern because our legal system operates heavily on precedent, and allowing such actions to go unchallenged only guarantees they will happen again, no matter who the group is next time.

Conspiracy to deprive someone of a fundamental Civil Right is actionable in criminal and civil court, and one would think the official entities there would want to avoid giving the impression they were conspiring thus.

[Smokin' Joe]

"nutriders"?

Of whom do you speak? I know of no such organization.

[TXnMA]

If they are counting rifle brass found by the CSI crew, it may be up to twelve, now, but I hadn't heard that. But, at any rate, there appears to be zero evidence of a WPD full-auto "Spray'n'Pray" -- as was claimed.

Nope. Nor do I know how many rounds of fired brass were recovered from biker's revolvers, (to add to the pile of bikers' ejected pistol brass) either...

(FYI & FWIW, I'm really not "on top of" the case -- just happen to have a friend who was in Waco when it went down...)

[Smokin' Joe]

At that range, and from advantageous positions, twelve rounds (the number claimed to have been fired by the police, according to the police) could well account for all of the deceased.

Until the autopsy reports are released, as well as the medical info on the wounded, we won't know who did what to who, and that assumes the LEOs there aren't in full CYA mode and willing to tamper with evidence to save their collective butts should there be serious wrongdoing.

If you think of keeping a roast in the fridge six to eight weeks, and apply that thought to a human corpse, they should have that data by now.

I haven't heard whether or not all the funerals have been conducted.

[Robert Teesdale]

Having slept, and awakening if not refreshed at least somewhat rested, I'd like to reply to not just a few individual posters but also address some of the larger and more significant memes and attitudes that the Waco incident bestirs amongst the citizenry, its guards, its would-be owners and its rebellious insurrectionists. As a part of that, it is good to recognize that there's also a community here at Free Republic that's worth preserving.

There's a lot of value here, and it is a quintessentially American value and practice: annoyed, blunt bickering without violence. We settle our internal differences, for the most part, with words and votes in this country rather than open gunfire and ideologically driven acts of murder. It's a good system, and one that has served us well as a people.

But all sides have to agree to that practice.

That includes the agents and officers of the State who draw their power and authority from us.

Very simply put, there are enough clear indicators that the State is in breach of contract and no longer abides by the terms; that the consent of the people to be governed by that power, has been withdrawn by painful and ugly lessons that teach our people that this breach of contract has, truly, been effected.

We - and I mean all of us - have reached a very bad place. The guards of our security have become the guards that control, and Juvenal's quis custodiet ipsos custodes is no longer a question of social theory but an active one of operational military planning among the people.

That is not hyperbole. The Bundy Ranch incident is notable not merely for its successful use of armed force to create surrender on the part of the State - it also demonstrated effective and most importantly successful military operations. Best of all, there was no loss of life.

That's textbook.

There are some very, very smart and grimly organized men who believe with their entire spirit that freedom is better than slavery; that the Leviathan is truly uncoiled and on the rampage; and that Death is not the worst of evils.

I said before this is a low intensity conflict across the country, and I did not use those words lightly.

There are judged to be at least 50,000 and potentially as many as 80,000 Special Weapons and Tactics raids in the United States each year. We all know the saga of kicked in doors and shouted orders at midnight and the shootings and rounding up of families.

There is now no tangible difference between light infantry troops in a hostile zone of occupation and law enforcement response. The uniforms, the equipment, the tactics and the purpose - domination and forced obedience to insure preservation of State lese majesty and authority rather than the will of the local communities - is terrifying.

That terror is purposeful, and deliberate.

And we know it. We feel it. We think about it, and we believe it.

Because we see it.

That's one of the reasons why Waco is, for so many people, a watershed event. It's not simply a case of undesirable elements, blended in with neutrals and innocents, getting Texas-style justice that they should have expected. There are those who do feel that way. I understand that perspective. In another time, another generation, it might have been absorbable and digestible and even if still horrific, perhaps passable within that narrow framework. I don't say that's right, just that it is what it is. The events of May 17th of this year at the Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas are unfortunately and very disturbingly nestled within a larger change of the times and serve as a crescendo of the current swells of totalitarianism that are unsettling the country and our people.

"Criminal bike gang" is simply a propaganda meme. Is there a such thing as a criminal bike gang? Yes, in the same way that there are "assault weapons" or "domestic extremists".

It's propaganda labeling, designed to stigmatize and defeat. Or, if you like, "pick, personalize, polarize and ridicule". Same stuff.

A healthier and more honest way to think of it is to ask some more searching questions of broader utility and implication, and consider those implications as they intersect; and how exponential impact arises from those intersections.

Are three piece patch motorcycle clubs a threat to the security of the State?

Yes, they are. They consist of men who openly embrace the risk of sudden, unpredictable and violent death as an inherent transactional cost of the exhilaration and boundless joy of real freedom.

Who place consistency of unit cohesion and loyalty over not just mere individuality but also over the more gut level human emotions of fear and greed and other basal reactions.

They are armed, and the highest archetype of the culture is the outlaw, who does not apologize for the hard and terrible sacrifices of a true type of freedom that is quintessentially American.

Are Oathkeepers and Three Percenters a threat to the security of the State?

Yes, they are. By their very existence they are a finger of harsh accusation pointed at State legitimacy, an open and deadly warning that conscience trumps command authority. That within the midst of the State is the patient and awakened seed of its own death, should it trespass bounds that violate the oaths of men who take those oaths seriously.

They are not merely armed and trained and coordinated - they are also nestled deep within the bowels and neurons and sinews and perceptions of the Leviathan, already mestastized, poised and watching and not forgiving.

Are veterans a threat to the security of the State?

There are millions of them. They all swore an oath, even if so many of them are hurting and bitter and lied to and withdrawn, wounded, underneath the often thin blankets of family and community and lacking the needed morale of leadership in the nation to enable them to feel that somehow the deaths of their brothers in Fallujah and Ramadi and other savage places at least isn't being openly spit on through the incomprehensibly stupid and rudderless idiocy of the ideologists that helm the ship of State.

What is the great fear?

What tyrants always fear; what the State always fears. Effective coalescing of these kinds of existential threats, under motivating circumstances, with leadership that drives to further goals than those of the moment.

We are no longer in Claire Wolfe's awkward stage.

We're now just waiting for Von Steubens to arrive, and for the dykes to breach, the dams give way, and the ship of State to be rudderless as the naked Blighs on the foredeck are recognized as having lost grasp of the tiller.

It is a really ripe time.

It is not a surprise to me that the officers of tyranny are afraid. They have lost the initiative, and they have lost control of the crest of the imagination of the people.

That's how it works.

What, really, is the real question that each shuddering overthrow of the State must ask?

It's a simple one, but critical.

Who is able and willing to shoot back?

Bikers are. Three piece patch holders will go first.

Oathkeepers are. Three Percenters will go first.

Veterans are. They will coalesce around insurgent first responders.

(And as an aside, "oppositionally defiant veterans" will probably catch on in some form or another, just like "microaggressions" has.)

The mass of the people are, once there's enough hope instead of despair and they have decided in the immutable wisdom of humans to become a crowd, instead of a group.

Weirdly, and kind of interestingly, it follows a path identical to the emergence of filamentary structures. Just an odd way the universe seems to arrange itself in this sort of thing when you look at infection and pivots and initiative and systemic collapse. (Compare here, here and here for an example of what I refer to.)

It all comes down to some really odd and funny stuff sometimes. The above groups and their fundamental ideologies and skills and motivations are really just ingredients. It's the spark of imagination that really lights the fire. Sometimes that spark is silly on the surface, like make believe Indians throwing tea out of boats. Or The Donald making outrageously true, and truly outrageous, statements and not backing down. Or nine arrogant old people in black robes declaring that all of human history is wrong, because well haters.

Like I said, it's an interesting time. Yes, I know that's an old curse to fling. But like an honest biker would say...

DILLIGAF. And it is what it is.

Just my $.02.

Gentlemen, start your engines. I'll see you on the road.

Let's keep it shiny side up out there.

Much love to my fellow Americans,

- RT "Asskiller"

Yeah, that's an actual road name. Has to do with livestock and midnight T-boning at speed. Broken wings, and all that. But that's a story for another time.

[TexasGator]

“Who is able and willing to shoot back? Bikers are.”

Apparently you missed the coverage in Waco. The BIKERS did not shoot back.

The bikers shot first.

It was over in seconds as over a hundred bikers scrambled to hide their guns.

[TexasGator]

You left out the:

Crips

Bloods

New Black Panthers

[Robert Teesdale]

You left out the:

Crips

Bloods

New Black Panthers

Naw, they are in the mix too, just like Mara Salvatruchas and other entities. But different focus. I'm sure they will be impactful in useful ways.

[Lazamataz]

You need to rewrite this so that it is more impartial and less you-oriented (a good editorialist never mentions his existence, such as “I feel..” or “I noticed...”).

Then you need to submit this to many locations. Web opinion blogs, facebook, and places like that. And you need to make this a stand alone Freeper Editorial.

Do it. Do it now. Contact me for methods of distribution.

Do it or YOU BECOME PART OF THE PROBLEM.

[TexasGator]

“We settle our internal differences, for the most part, with words and votes in this country rather than open gunfire and ideologically driven acts of murder. It’s a good system, and one that has served us well as a people.

But all sides have to agree to that practice.”

LOL! Tell that to the OMG’s .........

[TexasGator]

“Naw, they are in the mix too, just like Mara Salvatruchas and other entities. But different focus. I’m sure they will be impactful in useful ways. “

I am not sure what you mean by your post.

[Robert Teesdale]

I am not sure what you mean by your post.

Fog of war, buddy, fog of war.

[Lazamataz]

TexasGator is literally a troll. I actually caught him outright trolling. He’s also obsessive-compulsive: While America collapses, his main thing is Biker threads. I think he’s gay for bikers. He got a facelift so he’d be hotter to them.