Posted on 07/01/2015 9:02:17 PM PDT by celmak
They do, but the 1st amendment was intended to protect unpopular speech, and in flag burning is considered speech then so is flag waving.
Yes, we know this is just the usual Democrat effort to divide and create hostility to solidify and motivate its base.
But at the rate things are going the Dems will be burning books before long ...
I couldn’t agree with you more. You keep on hearing that the South seceded due to State’s Rights, or other such rubbish, when all you have to do is read the Secession documents to see what the people who actually seceded thought their reason was (hint: it wasn’t States Rights, it was slavery, pure and simple).
Just read the history!
There were gangs of men assigned to hunt deserters on both sides, and they did so with a vengeance. Those groups of men could just as easily catch runaway slaves as runaway soldiers.
The shove it back in their faces as I have done - the flag belongs to their Demorat Party. I tell them, "you want to ban anything of substance that represented slavery - BAN THE DEMORAT PARTY !!!"
The Demorat party was the Party of slavery, there was not one Republican that ever owned a slave.
A well worded law to remove the flag stating its;’ history while relegating it to Civil War sights and museums would force Democrats to vote for reality.
What would a Republican Sikh Woman have any reason to run defense for a Democrat symbol of defiance? Why give the Democrats a victory.
As I stated in post 47, I get tired of conservatives being labeled as racists holding this flag in text books that my college kids bring home, and never is it stated that it belonged to demorats!
I particularly don't care if the flag stays or goes, but I want the history of it to be correct - the history of slavery belongs to the Demorat Party.
The history is quite clear (you have read the Articles of Secession from the various states, right?)
The North did not fight to end Slavery, they fought to maintain the Union.
The South on the other hand, did fight to preserve Slavery, and only to preserve Slavery. If you doubt that, I suggest the reading of the Mississippi Article of Secession, then the South Carolina Article. If you can read those and claim that the only reason those States was seceded was something other than Slavery, I suggest you retake your English as a Second Language classes.
” The idea of abolition had been around since America’s founding. “
Before the founding. The British government announced two emancipation declarations during our war of independence.
The blacks they freed ended up in Canada after the Crown failed to suppress the secession of 1776. Lincoln wasn’t the first to wage a war to force rebels to remain in a union that they wanted out of, and he wasn’t the first to emancipate slaves. Slavery in America would have been over 90 years earlier if we had lost the fight for independence.
I know that of course. Again, that was politics. Lincoln didn’t want to alienate the border states. None of that changes the fact that slavery was the underlying cause. It had been the subject of endless debates and compromises for decades. There had already been a mini civil war over it in Kansas. And the slave owning elites were determined to hold onto what would be trillions of dollars worth of “property” in today’s money.
I had ancestors who owned fought on both sides, and some who were in Germany. I don’t claim that slavery was the motivation for the average soldiers on either side, though for some it surely was, especially on the Union side. As for the flag, it means different things to different people. I don’t think most people who fly it are racists, and I’ll argue with those that do. It’s unfortunate that many racists adopt it as their own. OTOH, I understand and respect that those who see it as a symbol of oppression have a legitimate reason to do so. I’m perfectly happy to let the residents of the south sort it out without interference.
That’s a long editorial, but the bottom line is trying to whitewash history to remove slavery as the primary cause of secession is just wrong.
So do you wish that the British had defeated the American colonials in the Revolution? The British announced two emancipation declarations during the war. Slavery in America would have ended 90 years earlier.
I will repeat myself, I hope you can understand it this time.
The battle flag is not a flag of a political party. That is like saying the United States flag is a republican flag, it is not. There are examples in history when a political party uses a flag in military operations (such as the nazis), but the CSA battle flag is NOT a political party flag.
If you see an Iraqi war vet in a parade with a flag or unit insignia that represents Operation Enduring Freedom, is that a Republican or Democrat flag insignia? It is neither, and who was in the white house when he fought does not change that point.
The CSA battle flag did not belong to a political party, it was a MILITARY FLAG. The CSA National flag did not belong to a political party, it was a NATIONAL FLAG.
You are very much wrong when you say it is a democrat flag. When the democrats controlled the white house and congress in the clinton's first 2 years was the USA flag a democrat flag? Of course not. Where military flags at that time democrat flags? Of course not.
I don't know how to make it any simpler for you to understand.
“Actually his wife owned most of the slaves. He just happened to marry the richest widow in America. “
That’s true. And when George Washington freed his own slaves upon his death, the slaves from Martha’s dowry weren’t included in that action; they eventually were passed on to her children. One of them being the future father in law of Robert E Lee.
Then get your historical facts right, that demorat slavers flew that flag and I get tired of conservative republicans getting stuck with that history - it's history is demorat! And I ain't no Yankee, I be a Evangelical Christian Abolitionists!
And learn to spell. Your ignorance is showing.
I spell it DEMORAT for a reason, or are you a dense demorat defender?
The battle flag is not a flag of a political party. That is like saying the United States flag is a republican flag, it is not. There are examples in history when a political party uses a flag in military operations (such as the nazis), but the CSA battle flag is NOT a political party flag.
And I'll repeat myself and hope you will understand, Name a republican that flew this flag during the war, when that flag was a real battle flag!
I get tired of conservatives getting stuck with the history of this flag and I will do what I can to keep the history of it where it belongs. No republican flew this flag when it was held in battle during the Civil War - ONLY DEMORATS HELD IT HIGH!
:-)
The Confederate States of America did not have a Republican Party, it did not have a Democrat Party either. The CSA had no recognized political party So no CSA Soldiers in the field was a member of political party waving the flag. Not that matters to the silly argument that a military flag is a political party flag.
By your argument the USA flag being used in the battlefield could be called a democrat flag because of the political party of the CIC.
Frankly I don't mind folks arguing the War Between the States causes and strategies etc
But there is a subset of republican that detests southern religious conservatives and resents having to have to admit they are their biggest bloc numerically and dependability wise past generation or two
They equate my ancestors with Nazis and so forth and not surprisingly this whole mindset and demonization sort of got a foothold with early Neoconservative movement scholars which btw was rejected by Reaganites
Mark Levin on occasion pays it lol service to my chagrin but often backtracks too
This notion that the as GOP and Democrat are always good and bad period is simplistic and inaccurate but it's easier for the intellectual lazy
The GOP has had a few decent moments but really only truly acquired the social conservative mantle under Reagan and after the Democrats threw white southern social conservatives under the bus in favor of a locked up black electorate
And now GOPe which never much cared for us anyhow wishes to do the same
And folks like Levin and Cruz and Rush are gonna have to choose I guess
Beating up a southern culture none of these talking heads understand or have kin buried in down here will not get them one black vote nor make the media like them
It's stupid
Yes boys....I'm talking about you folks everyone here loves so much
Grow a spine..
Zo, I agree with you on so many things....but not this. But, you keep chuggin’. :)
Wow, you should be on the Olympic team when it comes to jumping to conclusions. Many of the slavers operated out of Northern Ports, working the Golden Triangle.
My people opposed the invasion of their State by the armies of other states, the confiscation of their crops and property, the loss of ancestral lands that antedated the formation of the Union by 140+ years, and a host of other indignities foisted upon them by Yankees troops.
It was enough for them to cross the river and fight for the South.
How do you swear allegiance, as an honorable man to a government which has shat squarely upon you and the State your people helped found as a colony?
In short, You don't know jack about why they fought, but fight they did. Slavery wasn't a relevant issue in the face of all else.
There are no Germans in our heritage.
Not sure who these "Demorats" are but they sound like an awful bunch.
Whenever you quit frothing at the keyboard (you get paid for that?) maybe we could have a history discussion sometime.
As for your conflation of the Confederate States of America and the National Socialists in Germany, well, you can sit on that and rotate for your stupidity. You are as ignorant as those who wear SS runes and wave a battle flag they defile with their crap.
For racism, I would present Robert Byrd, former Senator from West Virginia--a state carved off of Virginia during the War by the Yankees--who was a Grand Kleagle of the KKK.
In our state (not WVa) Our schools had been integrated for 7 years while they were still burning buses in Boston so their children wouldn't have to go to school with "those people"--the selfsame demographic forced to go to school with us.
So spare me your sanctimony and false indignation.
The Yankees had slaves, too, their share of racists, they just played it down when they published the history books. They didn't get rid of them until they figured out they could treat the Irish worse and not have to pay for them, feed them, clothe them, provide housing or medical care (or take a loss on their investment).
You can dismount from your high horse any time.
As far as what you believe, believe what you want, if you spew it here I will attempt to correct it.
If you want to believe Obama is a Space Alien from Nibaru, and Valerie Jarrett is one of the Lizard Aliens, well that is up to you.
You are entitled to your own beliefs, but not your own facts.
Fully 90% of the Southerners who fought did not own slaves. Logic would dictate there must have been other compelling reasons men placed themselves in the fiery cauldron of warfare, subject to extreme deprivations, mutilation, and a horrible death other than to stand up for someone else to own someone.
As I said I will give you my opinion. What I will not do is put words in your mouth. You do just fine with that.
I demand the same courtesy--namely, that you not say I said what I did not.
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