Rand Paul: Officer involved in chokehold death shouldn't be a policeman

CNN ^ | updated 9:28 AM EST, Tue December 9, 2014 | Ashley Killough

[Zhang Fei]

Washington (CNN) -- The New York officer involved in the death of Eric Garner should no longer be on the police force, Sen. Rand Paul argued Monday.

The Kentucky Republican said Daniel Pantaleo lacked "discretion" when he placed Garner in a chokehold for allegedly selling untaxed cigarettes.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

So police officers should never use physical force to arrest a subject?

You never know who has a heart condition, after all.

The coroner said their was no choking involved.

Do facts enter into your Nazi/Nuremberg equation at all?

Or just Godwin's law?

[HMS Surprise]

I’m saying that no one can order you to commit a crime.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

You admitted he didn't choke the guy to death.

So exactly what crime did he commit?

[Zhang Fei]

From an internet commenter:

This is another low IQ dispute. There was no choke hold. Only the very stupid could imagine that there was.

I've administered a real chokes hold while fooling around as a teen ager and in Judo class in college. A choke hold puts the recipient to sleep immediately. They do not have the ability to say something like - 'I can't breathe'.

Haven't these dummies ever watched an MMA type match on TV? If you are really being choked, you do not make a speech.

I'm 6'4" and weigh about 320 lbs. But I'm tiny compared to Garner. He was a Heart Failure patient. I also am in Heart Failure but I went to the clinic yesterday to get my monthly blood test. My INR was 2.6. What was Eric Garner's INR?

Garner was a guy who foolishly engaged in strenuous physical activity with a weak heart and probably poor medicine discipline. He died because he was in a vigorous struggle. He was in a vigorous struggle because he chose to resist arrest. He should have been more careful. He made a fatal mistake.

Instead of another stupid demonstration we should have some kind of program to increase the public awareness of the proper management of Heart Failure.

[stephenjohnbanker]

: )

[rockabyebaby]

I served on a grand jury I know how it operates. Rand Paul did not sit on the jury, he did not hear the evidence, he did not question the witnesses. Rand Paul is a rino loud mouth looking for attention, but, I digress.

[HMS Surprise]

If a man says he can’t breathe he is necessarily in distress. If you have your arm locked around his neck you should reasonably assume that you are contributing to that distress. If your motivation is to keep him from killing a child standing nearby, then by all means squeeze away. If your motivation is to avoid showing weakness you must relieve his distress and reassess your tactics.

[A CA Guy]

I agree, and many of the police knew he had a history.

Yes it is tragic when any death occurs, but by simply not resisting arrest or other commands of the police you can avoid death. I think it is simple as that.

[HMS Surprise]

Let’s turn it around, shall we? Does a cop ever have to use discretion when making an arrest? Let”s say that a pregnant woman “resists” by simply saying, “But officer...” Does he have the authority to slam her down? When he does this might she not react like a normal human being and begin to struggle to protect herself and her child? If she does? ? Out comes the nightstick.

[Uncle Miltie]

"by simply not resisting arrest or other commands of the police you can avoid death"

With certain exceptions, of course.

[A CA Guy]

That is the difference between law and order and extermination of a race IMO.

[sargon]

The officers involved were doing what they were told and trained to do.

Then they were trained wrong.

A New York Grand Jury agrees.

A New York City grand jury? Pardon me if I'm underwhelmed.

The fact is, police get away with using excessive force all over the place, all the time. The police should go out of their way to avoid such brutality, even at the risk of their own safety.

Enough is enough with all this police excess, and never being held accountable for it...

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Cut the lame straw men and answer the question; what crime did the officer commit?

You admitted he did not choke Saint Chokehold, so you must think he committed some other crime.

What was it?

[mmichaels1970]

If someone is saying, “I can’t breath,” guess what, he CAN breath, because if he couldn’t breath he could not speak. This is one of the first things you look at in life guard training.

Spot on. I learned that as well when we were being trained to administer the Heimlich Maneuver. If the person is TELLING you they are choking, then you are NOT to administer the Heimlich.

From the link:

If the person can speak, cough or breathe, do not interfere.

I keep hearing these people on TV talking about how the officer choked him and go on to say that he told them he couldn't breathe. The "I can't breathe" shirts are a contradiction.

[HMS Surprise]

Manslaughter, which would pled down to a lesser offense. Probation. New job.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

How did he commit manslaughter?

What did he do that was different from how any other person who was resisting arrest would be treated?

Or should police officers not arrest people if they resist?

[Fledermaus]

Don’t confuse people with facts. Especially the knee-jerk FReepers that pollute this site.

[Georgia Girl 2]

“Lady, I am more informed on this specific instance than you can possibly imagine.”

Why not enlighten us all with your hugh and series knowledge of the event? :-)

[Georgia Girl 2]

Well I guess the rest of us better just STHFU then. :-)

[lormand]

The police enforce the laws of the community they serve. When a police officer tells you to put your hands behind your back and you die fighting them instead, then I have no sympathy.

We can probably agree that the law they were enforcing was BS. However, there are lots of laws I don't agree with, but am not willing to die for.

The alternative is anarchy and chaos, things which appeal to your average libertarian and liberal.