ONE QUARTER MILLION misdemeanor arrests every single year in NYC and how any end in a death? This is a remarkable statistic. If you resist arrest, your chances of being injured go WAY UP. Even so, your chances of dying are very small.
Posted on 12/07/2014 7:25:21 AM PST by gorush
Of course she did, as an agent of state power. Can you now see why the argument that because she’s black the state should be absolved is absurd?
That technique and ones like it came about from the fallout from the Rodney King incident. I suspect the chances of an asthma attack would have been lesser with batons to the arms and legs, but I think there’s been a general decision to go with swarming and holding in place, and fewer tazers. Even aggressive staring has potential for harm.
The problem here was not the takedown...it was exceptionally non-violent considering Mr. Garners physical response. The issues were the choice to engage him for arrest at all, imperfect knowledge of Mr. Garners health, and potentially delays in getting Mr. Garner correct medical attention.
It is unfortunate that there are trade offs between methods(more risk of this, vs.more risk of that), and that the government is imperfect even after those trade offs, and that people of good nature fail to be omniscient, and that people such as Mr. Garner get to have a vote in the way things happen and make choices which are detrimental to their own health...but after a certain point, as marktwain said: “stuff happens.”
ONE QUARTER MILLION misdemeanor arrests every single year in NYC and how any end in a death? This is a remarkable statistic. If you resist arrest, your chances of being injured go WAY UP. Even so, your chances of dying are very small.
No, you clearly have nothing else.
You certainly are not dealing in facts.
Great graph——thanks.
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That is not an argument that I would advance.
I think the state should be absolved, because the state did not intend to kill this man.
But at the same time, I can also say that i would like to know this sergeant’s thoughts on this incident, yet no one seems ot have asked her.
No doubt compliance might have been prudent. And yes he WAS “moving around”. He was being drug to the ground from the back. Without question this is when the 10 hemorrhages occurred.
With an aging out of shape population cops are going to have to adopt some lighter handed situational protocols. It’s not necessary to break out the taser on grandpa and grandma, and with 5 cops on scene an obese middle aged suspect can be hooked up without killing him.
Sure it *can* be. ...and that includes everything from the obvious of shooting at an unknown person through a door, to some pretty indirect obscure legal theories of liability. It doesn’t mean that all are.
After talking to some LEO, they say the issue is more one of positional asphyxia than choke hold.
There is also the question of what first aid assistance was rendered by the NYPD until the EMS arrive on scene.
And after the 2:09 mark, the view of Garner is essentially blocked. What's going on after that time? Again, that's for an open jury to decide.
Is this video alone enough to convict the cop? Absolutely not! I were a juror, and if this were the only evidence, I would quickly vote to acquit.
But it is, IMHO, enough to hold an open trial.
And please remember also that I'm not arguing that a cop's knee must have caused the death. But something arising from police action did kill Garner.
That's a very interesting point. If it can be shown that Garner died from exertion, and not from anything the cops did, then the cops are without fault. It would be sort of like collapsing while running away from a police officer.
But based on the video, I don't think that's the case. As I posted previously, I think that's something an open jury should decide.
He had asthma and was obese. My opinion is his stating that he couldn’t breathe would be due to the airway constriction from the asthma and obesity, and as you say not from a “chokehold.” The medical complications immediately following would have caused his death.
So I am certain that he couldn’t breathe and was telling the truth. But again, his not being able to breathe was due to medical reasons from asthma and obesity and not a chokehold.
He died during a routine arrest, due to existing medical conditions, exasperated by his resisting arrest.
Remove his serious existing medical conditions, OR resisting arrest, from the equation and he would be alive and back on the street selling his loosies after a day in jail.
When the liberal talking points and BS is removed, those are the undisputable facts of the case.
When I watch the video, at the point in time when the cops left leg is not clearly visible, it seems to me that garner’s back is facing the opposite direction it would need to be in for the officers knee to be pressing down upon it.
I can see that he is pressing his head with his hands, but I can’t see that he is pressing anything at all with his left knee.
Further, his left leg is out of visibility for about 5 seconds, but it is very clear that the officer’s weight is on his right leg visible near garner’s head, and that there is no weight or leverage on his left leg during that 5 seconds.
I do not believe this is for an open jury to consider.
If there is no even basic evidence that a man committed a crime, then he should not have to face legal jeopardy and the financial cost of such just to satisfy people who refuse to be satisfied.
I see zero reason for this man to stand before a criminal jury. he clearly was not trying to kill this man, nor was he even accidentally trying to kill this man.
The man simply died.
Definitely agree.
You are describing the basis for manslaughter.
I agree. Police are arresting the average person. The average person may very well not be in a healthy condition. Lots of people have asthma and diabetes. They should not be put at risk for a small non-violent crime.
The problem here was that the grand jury had the wrong person in front of it for the wrong crime. The four people sitting on Garner and the one guy who is twisting his head and forcing it flat on the sidewalk were causing the death.
I would be happy if the City of New York paid the Garner family a few million and changed how they arrest huge black men.
Being wrestled to the sidewalk and handcuffed is really hard on the psychi of most of the population. I really wonder what the difference is between a forcible arrest like this and a rape. Pain, helplessness, a feeling of violation, I think its really the same thing.
Most people who agree with the police say that Garner did something wrong. But the reality is that much of the population would have also done something wrong. Its not in our Psychi to submit to a painful state of helplessness. There are lots of people who will go berzerk. Its really not their fault.
While the majority of us can quietly, logically submit. There are millions who can’t. Or who can’t all the time. And they should not risk death every time a cop approaches them. The police need to find a better way. And I hope the millions they send to the Garner family from the NYC treasury helps them find it.
His asthma attack could have been caused by nothing more than his excitement at the arrest. Asthma is worsened by position without any external pressure. Police are not responsible to take a medical history before subduing a suspect. No one would have known what assistance to render as long as a person was still able to speak—CPR is not done on a conscious, breathing person nor do police carry O2 in their pockets EMS handles that.
Sadly he died and cigarette police is a stupid, liberal idea. But the man spoke and understood English and knew his own medical history when he made the decision to resist the police.
Quality of life police units in NYC have been deployed since Giuliani. Street vendors, squeegee people and other nuisance public solicitations have been the target.
In this case it was the local merchants who play by the rules who have been hassled by street vendors such as Garner. They are the ones who have been complaining and calling the police.
We can all complain about The Tax Authorities. But I think most conservatives would complain about both politicians who pass high taxes and low level nuisance street thugs.
Yet our entire conversation stems from this precise point of view. That the BLACK sergeant ordered his arrest. If that isn’t the point being made, exactly what are we disagreeing about?
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