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Obamacare repeal is more likely, and now GOP needs an alternative
washingtonexaminer ^ | Nov. 17, 2014 | Philip Klein

Posted on 11/17/2014 9:08:26 AM PST by PROCON

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To: PROCON
Alternatives? The links below to a Michigan Senator's ( Patrick Colbeck ) Idea...

An HSA + Concierge Service, brilliant IMHO...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3049245/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3044257/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3055528/posts

121 posted on 11/17/2014 2:46:48 PM PST by taildragger (Not my Circus, Not my Monkey ( Boy does that apply to DC...))
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To: Oberon
And the auto mechanic charges for every problem , and does not have to write a huge note to justify payment. If you cannot pay, you dont get the service.. If your car needs more work than the allotted time, you have to get a rental car while it stays in the shop. When you see a patient in the exam room, they want all their questions and problems dealt with at the time of the visit.
Your brother in law from Jersey also does not have to carry a beeper in case the automobiles in the shop want him for something. If the automobile does not work, he does not get sued and lose his mechanic license.
You also do not need a doctorate to be an auto mechanic. A high school diploma will do.
122 posted on 11/17/2014 2:49:02 PM PST by kaila
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To: PROCON

We have an alternative - it’s called freedom.


123 posted on 11/17/2014 2:51:53 PM PST by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: kaila

None of these issues negate the possibility of a simple fee-for-services model. In fact, that is the way doctors operated for the vast majority of time there have been physicians.


124 posted on 11/17/2014 6:06:19 PM PST by Oberon (John 12:5-6)
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To: Jim Noble
OR strict rationing has to be adopted.

Death panels?

125 posted on 11/18/2014 5:37:15 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
Death panels?

Look, the structure of Medicare is flawed beyond fixing. The Congress in 1965 passed a law which promises to pay, without limit, any "necessary" charges arising out of illness. This commits the Treasury every year to pay an unknown sum to cover an unknown number of charges for an unknown number of individuals.

Of course, they applied a static analysis based on voluntary transactions occurring in 1955-1964, when seniors were paying for fairly primitive services with their own money.

The promise of unrestricted Federal payments after 1965 did not produce static results, however. There was an explosion of innovation, which never would have occurred without Medicare, and resulted in (among other things) AMAZING results in joint replacement surgery, cardiovascular disease, cataracts and other visual disorders, and certain cancers.

These wonderful devices, drugs and procedures are the result of the free market, as is often correctly said. But the guarantee of customers via taxpayer dollars for payment was the rocket fuel for all this free-market creativity.

Medicare began to distort the Federal legislative and budget processes by the early 1980s. CBO predictions from 1965 using static analysis were off by a factor of 1000% by 1991.

So, the Great Compromise of 1986 was passed, to allow tax cuts together with unlimited money printing and unlimited borrowing.

These processes were essentially unchanged by 2009, with the result that Congress cannot pass a budget at all.

A crash is inevitable, and the structure of Medicare is the cause.

This was of course intentional by LBJ and his large Congressional majorities. They never saw Title XVIII (Medicare) as anything but a temporary measure on the way to nationalization. They didn't imagine it would take this long, but that's because they didn't anticipate the resilience and creativity of the US biomedical industries once they were granted unlimited taxpayer funds, or, more accurately, the ability to fund research, development, marketing and deployment with money borrowed on the full faith and credit of the United States and, when that was not enough, by borrowing against generations yet unborn.

So, death panels? My preference is for a defined benefit payment to seniors, usable only for medical services and supplementable with their own money if desired. However, this is very unlikely to happen, for the same reasons that Medicare's absurd design was invented in the first place and then allowed to continue to the point of wrecking the legislative budget process and eventually the currency.

126 posted on 11/18/2014 7:52:22 AM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Jim Noble; DoodleDawg; kaila
Folks, another Karl Denninger post on the topic, posted just today (ironically enough).

Liar.

Here is a sample:

The medical system in this country is not bankrupting people or the nation because of Obamacare. It is bankrupting people because it has managed to exempt itself from the very laws that I had to follow running an Internet company.

Those are the same laws, incidentally, that a company making cars, washing machines or for that matter computers must follow.

They are the reason that a computer today costs a tiny fraction of what a computer of equivalent capability cost a few years previous. They are the reason you can buy a $3 calculator when the original Monroe "portable" cost a few hundred dollars. They're the reason my original Sony D-5 CD player cost $350 in 1984 and yet today you can buy a CD player for $30 or less. They are the reason my first 50" HDTV cost close to $10,000, while today I can buy one at WalMart that uses a tiny fraction of the power and is also a fraction of its size and mass -- for $500.

These laws are good, not bad. They say that if you buy a laptop computer you own the ******ned thing and may do with it as you wish, including selling it to someone else for whatever price you may negotiate between you.

They also say that if I, as a manufacturer of said computer, get together in a room with other manufacturers and try to fix prices we all go to prison because that's a violation of 15 USC, the Sherman and Clayton Acts. We can go to prison for a decade and be fined $1 million each, while our respective companies can be fined $100 million -- for each attempt.

These two laws say that any act designed to fix prices or restrain trade by agreement or conspiracy between two or more entities where market power exists is per-se unlawful and triggers these penalties.

This is a good law. It is a law that I lived by despite having one hundred competitors in my local market. I lived by it not only because it was the law but because competition is good and it results in better goods and services, along with lower prices, for everyone. Those who put forward a superior product at a lower price prosper, those who can't or don't fail. That's what competition is and there is exactly none of it in the medical industry.

127 posted on 11/18/2014 3:25:48 PM PST by Oberon (John 12:5-6)
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To: Oberon

I just had a repairman come to fix my water purification system. He was here for about 10 minutes, and charged me $149. That is much more than a physician would make in that same time period evaluating a patient. You can barely get $150 for a tonsillectomy under Medicaid ( not much more with other insurance plans) . For that tonsillectomy, the charges are all lumped together. The preop visit, the surgery, and 90 days post op are the complete payment of $150 you receive for a very high risk procedure. Think Jahi McMath. If there were free market forces, the prices at least on the physician end would increase.Payments to providers are already at the bottom of the barrel. Also, computer makers left the USA to run sweat shops in China to drop their employee cost.The computer maker does not have to hire thousands of super skilled workers like hospitals all across the country have to do. They hire peasants out of the villages to work for a paltry salary. Electronics and healthcare are two different scenarios ,and you cannot compare the two.


128 posted on 11/18/2014 4:36:39 PM PST by kaila
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To: kaila
Once again you fail to see the point.

Which is NOT to say that computer manufacturing is anything like the healthcare industry, much less that the costs should be comparable... but rather to say, broadly, that market competition favors the consumer, and that this principle works across industries. Including the healthcare industry.

Did you even read the article at the link I provided?

129 posted on 11/18/2014 6:04:55 PM PST by Oberon (John 12:5-6)
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To: Oberon
I read the article. However, you are missing the point.
Market competition favors the consumer if all consumers were alike. If you want to buy a computer, be prepared to fork over the money.In healthcare, patients want something for nothing.
The computer manufacturer does not have to worry that you cannot afford the computer, the computer manufacturer does not have to worry about your social situation, the computer manufacturer does not care if you dont like the computer, because he has people from India on the phone to do interference.The computer manufacturer can relocate all his production offshore to decrease cost.
Therefore, to compare tech vs healthcare is inaccurate.
I see competition in the lasik industry,. I hear the commercials, and let me tell you, they offer one eye at $999. They have not dropped the price in the last 5 years- due to cost of overhead in the USA, cost of malpractice, cost of skilled personnel.
What will happen is the cost will initially drop if you leave insurance out of the picture- as the hospitals and clinics will not need to have the multitudes of personnel to deal with insurance issues. However, that does not factor in the people who show up at the door with no ability to pay ( like some freepers who have stated that they will not carry insurance), and the basic overhead of running a hospital or practice in the USA.
Competition will only decrease the cost 5%. You have to figure out a way to get the freeloaders to pay. And from what I have read on FR, there are a lot of people here who will not pay. Computer companies do not have to deal with freeloaders.
The freeloaders will wind up in the hospital with doe , pleading eyes to the social worker or case manager begging for assistance.
That is what I see. And that is why the cost gets spread to everyone else.
130 posted on 11/18/2014 7:45:29 PM PST by kaila
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To: kaila
Competition will only decrease the cost 5%. You have to figure out a way to get the freeloaders to pay.

In many countries that aren't the US, if you show up at a hospital with no cash and no insurance, they show you the door.

That's one way to do it. I've no problem with it either, provided the potential patient does not have a life-threatening condition. That would end the freeloading right there.

131 posted on 11/18/2014 9:08:28 PM PST by Oberon (John 12:5-6)
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To: Oberon

I don’t believe in not treating patients who will eventually wind up in the ER with a life threatening condition. That is not what we should do as a society.
What I do believe in is having insurance cover conditions that are life or limb threatening- CHF, diabetes, cancer, heart disease,trauma, etc.
The rest not on the list- you pay for out of pocket.
You want your hay fever treated? Pay for it out of pocket.
Same with erectile dysfunction. Pay for your own Viagra.
You want a scooter? Lose weight, you may not need it if you lose a few pounds, if not- pay for it on your own.
Insurance covers too much.


132 posted on 11/18/2014 9:23:07 PM PST by kaila
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To: kaila
What I do believe in is having insurance cover conditions that are life or limb threatening- CHF, diabetes, cancer, heart disease,trauma, etc.

Amen, sister. This is what "insurance" means... risk management for catastrophic events. On that basis, costs will drop considerably.

133 posted on 11/19/2014 1:34:04 PM PST by Oberon (John 12:5-6)
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