Posted on 09/03/2014 6:05:13 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER
It was just about dark, I was at the kitchen table when the dog barked, headlights were coming up my driveway. I went outside to see who it was...he was a stranger.
He announced that he was from the Census Bureau and wondered if this was a good time for a 40 minute interview. He proceeded to tell me all about the Census, how it established demographical statistics and how I was required by law to answer the questions.
I told him two people live here and we are American Citizens, and that I would tell him nothing more. He said he doesn't make the rules, the politicians do, and the Census isn't political. I replied that is was and asked him why it was now being run by the White House...he denied it.
He claimed all information is "confidential" I said, just ask the NSA, they already know everything about me, have you heard about the NSA scandal? (No.) I said, all information with the IRS is supposed to be confidential, and they are sharing it with political organizations. He said "I don't work for the IRS." I told him, "I don't care, people don't trust the federal government."
Then he told me it's all about money, and we print the money that everyone uses. I said, it is the medium of exchange, but we could use gold just as well. And it's none of your business.
He repeated that it's required by law that I answer the questions. I asked, what is going to happen am I going to jail if I don't? He said; "No, this isn't criminal, it's civil."
I asked, so you are going to file a civil suit against me if I don't comply? He said, "I didn't say that." I asked, "Well just what are you saying?"
He said, "It could cost you money" and that's all I can say." I said, "Who told you that? By what authority can you violate my right to privacy and fine me if I don't comply?" He replied, "It's federal law."
I said, "Do you know what the Constitution does?" He answered, "It authorizes the census." I told him, "It limits what the federal government can and can't do, and it doesn't say you can come on my property and cross examine me."
He said, "I work for you."
I was wild..."I've told you all I'm going to tell you, and if you claim you work for me, I'm telling you we're done." and pointed towards the road.
He left. The whole ordeal took about 30 minutes.
Has anyone here had a similar experience with a tenacious census taker? I'd say don't engage them in the yard, and for God's sake don't let them in the house.
Did you get it on video?
I agree. Then tell him that you are about to video your property and tell him that he is in the view.
Video him leaving quickly.
We do?
I thought the way you dealt with him was VERY proper indeed!
Thanks, I'll completely agree with you next time.
Thanks to FReeep I had copies of this by my door for each visit:
I hereby rebut your Title 13, Section 141 presumption of authority for personal information collection for Census 2010, due to the following apparent Title 13 violations:
• §6(c) restrictions on process;
• §195 restrictions on Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3 & Amendment 14, Section 2 process;
• §241 failure of request process;
• §301(a), §303 & §307 lack of authorization to collect information;
• §302 lack of authorization for Chapter 5 or Chapter 7 implementing regulations;
• And, your apparent personal violation of Chapter 1, Subchapter II, §23(c) restrictions on presumptions of Chapter 9 authority.
• THEREFORE: I hereby retain of all of my rights and privileges under the 4th and 5th Amendments, and respectfully decline to respond to that question.
Minor census reports are done every year. Not sure why...Perhaps to calibrate the 10 year census?
The census is authorized by the constitution. However, the goofy questions they ask are not. They will claim that you can be fined etc, but I see no case law of them ever prosecuting someone.
Knowing demographics of an area has some use...and 20 years ago I wouldn't have had a problem with the questions, but these days...they can kiss my ass.
A couple of years ago when I got hit, I got the mail surveys and then the follow up phone calls and then the threats and then they stopped.
As far as the law on the matter:
13 U.S. Code § 221 - Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers
(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.
This is a civil fine (as it's not in the criminal part of the US code).
Going back to myself a couple of years ago, I think what got them to shut up is when I asked to whom I needed to mail the $100 fine. No, I never got billed.
So my advice to you is if you can handle the $100 fine (not that they will actually fine you), tell them to stick their survey up their asses.
But whatever you do, don't lie...
Yup. She was almost in tears when she left.
Either someone casing the place or a Scammer wanting to get personal information...
You left off the most effective one.
Your sign(s):
“No Trespassing”
“Beware of Dogs”
“Trespassers will be shot...”
Add: “Survivors will be shot again.”
;>)
I told my US Harasser that “I gave at the office” and brushed him off. He came back a couple more times and once I bore down on him as I was leaving my driveway. He gave up.
About 90 minutes ago, the time of this post.
In this neighborhood, I’ve learned to never answer the door unless I’m expecting someone. I’ve managed to dodge the last two censuses that way.
The census taker must present an ID badge that contains a Department of Commerce watermark and expiration date. The census taker may also be carrying a black canvass bag with a Census Bureau logo.
The census taker will provide you with supervisor contact information and/or the local census office phone number for verification, if asked.
The census taker will only ask you the questions that appear on the 2010 Census form.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/2010_census/cb10-cn59.html
It will cost the government 5 million bucks to collect that $100.
Census in 2014 ?
Tell him your calling the cops and kick them off your property..
I have had a similar experience, although not identical.
Refused to answer and was similarly threatened by the census taker. I laughed at her, and said you can wright down anything that you observe that is relevant to the census questions. BUt I will not answer them directly. I pointed out that the IRS and Socialist Stupidity Admin had other info that she was asking for and other information was in the county clerks office and the registrar’s office and that the agency should look there.
She similarly stated that federal regulations required that I answer her questions to which I laughed and said I was not going to assist her in stealing more of my money. This went on for close to 40 minutes to which I was polite but asserted my rights, quoted the constitution, and similarly refused to answer questions or advised that they already had that information.
What ended the conversation was when I stated that I would not answer any questions without the presence of my lawyer.
The law does state that you must answer any and all questions
“Your response to this survey is required by law (Title 13, U.S. Code, Sections 141 and 193). Title 13, as changed by Title 18, imposes a penalty for not responding. We estimate this survey will take about 40 minutes to complete.”
That verbiage doesn’t lead to any mandate, but a bureau web page singles out Section 121 of Title 13, which says that any adult refusing to answer a bureau survey shall be fined.
I read through your thread, and didn’t see any mention of your asking him for his ID. He could have just wanted to scope out your place for a future burglary, especially in light of the fact that the last official census was done in 2010. I’d say this guy was up to no good.
Likely not a real census taker. More likely a scam. See http://www.bankrate.com/finance/personal-finance/look-out-for-these-4-census-scams-1.aspx
Better that the NSA targets U. ;-)
“Sounds to me like someone “casing” the place for a future burglary.”
My thoughts exactly.
First get his name and address. Then, tell the guy that you think he could be casing because you’ve heard of this type of scheme before, and you would call the police if he doesn’t leave. Record all this on the cell phone.
Then, warn him not to come on property again otherwise it’s trespassing.
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