Posted on 08/16/2014 7:08:33 AM PDT by Innovative
Apple Inc (AAPL.O) has begun keeping the personal data of some Chinese users on servers in mainland China, marking the first time the tech giant is storing user data on Chinese soil.
The storage of user data in China represents a departure from the policies of some technology companies, notably Google Inc (GOOGL.O), which has long refused to build data centers in China due to censorship and privacy concerns.
Apple said the move was part of an effort to improve the speed and reliability of its iCloud service, which lets users store pictures, e-mail and other data. Positioning data centers as close to customers as possible means faster service.
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
Bullpucky, Cold Heat. Is it your contention that anyone, especially the Chinese, has broken 256 bit or 512 bit encryption or have been handed the keys?! Or have the computing power to spend the time breaking such sophisticated encryption for trivial data? Cold Heat, the Chinese government already HAS full dossiers on its citizens. Besides, using the Cloud is still optional. A user does not have to use it unless he wants to. . . and when he does, his data is heavily encrypted by the user's device as well, so that it becomes doubly encrypted in storage.
You said you were not on top of these thing, you don't use smartphones, and assorted other things that show you really don't keep up on the state of the art. I do. It's my business to do so. Yet you call me "useless?" I'm the one posting links to factual, checkable facts. You aren't.
The actual fact is that the NSA and other government agencies get their data by tapping into the data stream before and after it leaves the server farms, the ISPs, towers, etc., or by surreptitiously intercepting devices from the possession of a target individual or group of individuals and altering them. Apple's encryption cannot even be decrypted by Apple to access the data without the users' keys. . .
"Apple also said in the letter that it collects Wi-Fi and GPS information when the phone is searching for a cellular connection. Apple said the data it transmits about location aren't associated with a unique device identifier. . . the company wrote in the July (2013) letter to Congress.
and, Cold Heat, forensic data examiners in examining the data streams being sent from iOS devices have proved that IOS does not transmit location data with any ID signifiers to any servers. Apple told the truth.
In the article at hand, Apple is quoted:
"Apple has frequently come under fire from Chinese state media, which accused the company of providing user data to U.S. intelligence agencies and have called for 'severe punishment'.The U.S. company has strongly denied working with any government agencies to create back doors into its products or servers. "We have also never allowed access to our servers. And we never will," Apple has previously stated.
No doubt you will call that another lie from Apple, without any proof at all. However, it is not. You keep pulling opinions you claim are facts out of your navel when you have no evidence to back you up. You are so paranoid about this kind of idiocy. Why do you even use a computer? I'm surprised you haven't climbed into a hole and pulled it in after you.
I responded to your posting of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. I expect supportable honesty and facts, not name calling and provable misinformation like you've been posting. You demonstrate that you believe that breaking modern encryption is magically easy. It isn't, not even for the NSA. Your thinking so just demonstrates your lack of knowledge on the topic.
Cut out the nastiness and name calling. GIVE IT A REST!
A total canard with the inference being that the user is protected!
It's just not true.
The part about the IOS not transmitting ID signifiers is true, but the idea that the user is protected is false.
While I do not use smart phones today, that does not mean that I did not in the recent past. Even though I explained this once, I will do it again just for the benefit of you.
Any one missing data point, like a identifier does not make you secure. That information can be gleaned in other ways, and over a period of time. Once that is done, it does not have to be done again. For apple or it's millions of sycophants to claim that it is secure is the same sort of mental gymnastics Apple users employ to say that Apple is the most innovative.
Apparently you believe that encryption cannot be broken and the Chinese are too stupid to do it or cannot divine a "key".
I think I'll just leave that with you as it is a ludicrous assumption. That is exactly what the Germans thought in regard to their 4 wheel Enigma machine. The British broke it through data collection and then used what they had collected to assist the programming a rudimentary WWII era computer and crunched the numbers subsequently breaking the codes in spite of the fact that no one actually knew the key or what was in the key on either end. Like all coded messages, there has to be some sort of data located within the messages to identify what key is needed to decrypt. It does not matter where you store the other piece of the data. Eventually it will be found, seized, or in this case given to you. One would of course need to be able to recreate the algorithms needed to recreate the encryption sequence. Every bit of information you collect in this regard shortens the time needed to decrypt. (and computers are now blazing fast compared to what they successfully used in WWII)
The facts are that you are of the opinion that the Apple I-phone is secure and can be safely used by corporations who are highly sensitive to security issues. Apple has been trying to overcome these fears to expand their retail base, and have had some successes. But they still have a long way to go in convincing them and that is because it is not secure and everyone but you apparently knows it.
I would get your head out of the Apple techie blogs where you are immersed in a echo chamber and do a little independent thinking.
I did not originally come here to bash Apple, but that does not mean that they don't deserve bashing...they certainly do.
I only wanted to point out that Apple did something that even google would not do, and they did it because China threatened them and it worked. It did not work with Google as google is not a vertically integrated company like Apple is.
That is Apple's weakness internationally and after this, they will be sharing data or kowtowing to every State Actor on the planet.
There is no secure consumer smart phone. not Apple, not any of them.
Cloud????LOL!.....The cloud is just a server. In the case of China, that server farm is now under Chinese control and access. It's just a matter of time before they use it to add to their data collection base. As they add to to it. All things become exposed. The smart phone is now playing a part in that data collection. A pretty big part, I might add.
Gleaning location data of any singular individual from aggregated data of millions of data streams, again without identifiers, is NOT POSSIBLE.
. Just because YOU want to believe in magic does not mean I have to. My head is NOT "buried in Apple blogs" as you so quaintly seem to think. Yours is buried in paranoid fear.
256, 512, and 1024 bit random hexadecimal string passwords are nowhere as easy to "divine" or break, as you seem to think. There is nothing out there that can do. . . and neither the Chinese, nor even our vaunted NSA has that capability to do that in any reasonable time for any data to be useful.
The ludicrous one on this thread is you.
I don't have the time to educate a fool. But just for fun I will address this idiotic comment.
All they have to do is to possess your phone number and call your stupid phone. The tower pings will do the rest. Not that I want to insult the phone by calling it stupid, as it is usually the operator who is.
That’s of course making a rash assumption that you don’t have your fine GPS turned on to run all the silly apps, some of which come loaded on the phone pre-installed and activated.
All for your own good .....certainly..
That is the most hilarious thing I've read in a long time. Do you even have a clue what "aggregate data" is? Apparently not, and you call ME a "fool"???? Always with the name calling.
On the contrary, let ME educate YOU, since you have AGAIN demonstrated in an as insulting manner as possible.
An identifier IS a freaking PHONE NUMBER, or an IMEI, or an ICCID, it is ANYTHING at all, that identifies the phone or the sender. I told you that has been proved to be NOT INCLUDED with any location data being sent by the iPhone. They cannot reverse find it by calling your phone because the IDENTIFIER IS SIMPLY NOT ATTACHED!!! If it is not sent, it's not sent. Those searching would have to be sitting AT the right cell tower AT the right microsecond that particular cell phone just happened to connect to that cell tower to intercept the data from that number and IMEI and ICCID.
If you have someone's phone number, yes, you can call it and find the closest tower. . . or use the IMEI or ICCID number and find where it's located if its got a GPS. . . or if no GPS, the closest three towers it's using and then triangulate. That's possible with any cellular phone these days with location services turned on. On an iPhone, you can turn off location services.
I'm shouting because you seem deaf to actual facts preferring your version of reality. . . and you live in FANTASYLAND. . . and when anyone refuses to join you on your big-eared, up-and-down, Dumbo ride, you call them names.
China users only
You sir are a blinded moron who is so enamored with a product that you ignore all else, including the thread topic.
You are only here screwing with me because I defiled your worshipful servant, Mr. Apple...
The phone number you speak of is part of the personal data that your carrier and I would assume many other agencies, friends, acquaintances and family have. The information might very well be on their own phones and thus are part of the data that is collected by the State, from which they glean whatever information they need about you, should they desire to. All they have to do is match it up with the un-tagged data that they collect from other communications, with data they get from hacks, with data they get from legal state access.
In China, the government there, basically a authoritarian autocratic regime, requires this data on every person under it’s wings, including those who travel to and from China but it’s not exclusive to China anymore.
Many of these travelers use I-phones....or did, because the servers were not located in China.
Well now they are..
I keep having to drag you by the nads back to the topic of this thread, and that is Apple’s cooperation with the Chinese minders.
Believe me when I tell you that they would not have threatened apple with the banning of their devices if they had no use for that information that they can now access at their pleasure without a hack.
Their banning of certain Intel chips and chipsets is also related to this. The CCP wants root control over it’s devices and they will get it. So they are not yet done with Apple..
Much easier and less disruptive to brick devices then to shut down the networks when they need to control communications. Also much easier to monitor it’s people and those who enter the country, as well as those in the special administrative areas.
Apple just helped them out, thinking that they might lose business. As has Yahoo, others..
I really don’t care about apple, it’s not the point.
The point is the ever increasing and often forced cooperation between private communications companies, device makers, and the State. Whether in China or now the US.
Hope you don’t have a Facebook account...they have what is essentially warrantless access now.
We are now a official tyranny...we have progresses beyond the soft stuff. perhaps you should consider getting rid of the devices that betray you every day.
I have eliminated at least one....the smart phone.
So just who is the dummy here?
Dummy..
More insults upon insults and lots of noise from Fantasyland.
I agree we are now living in a tyranny. . . but you attribute magical powers to them I am not willing to grant them because I am far more knowledgeable of the technology’s capabilities than you.
You are not so knowledgeable as you think.
You fail to see how all the pieces of data collection work together as intelligence. You fail to see how the State uses phones to monitor people in places where this is common and a known practice.
You don’t even see the significance of Apple allowing Chinese mainland servers to handle it’s traffic.
Because you are so smart and knowledgeable, you don’t see the dangers inherent in smart phones, because you are a apple/mac head and you cannot include those consumer products in that bucket because to YOU they are something special and unique.
They are not.
“On an iPhone, you can turn off location services”
You can do that on any phone, except for 911. But as I said, if you have the phone numbers or phone ID’s which are easily accessed by the Feds, you can ping the phone and get a near exact location in most cases..
If you have other intel like street addresses of home, friends and family, all you need is a general area..
Once you seize a phone, you can get into the cloud storage and contents. But you really only need to have the phone for a minute to transfer enough data to clone it and have you way with the data later on.
All this once required warrants but they can browse your stuff, and as long as they don’t try to use it in court, they don’t need a stinkin warrant.
The smart phone is akin to a little black book and worse...It holds data on not just you, but every friend and acquaintance you have had any exchanges with.
It is not secure. Certainly few if any devices in consumer land are.
So if you need security, you either don’t use them or you buy a device that is..One that essentially self destructs without a proper code because the manufacturer will tell them how to bypass a lock.. One that places all your e-mail and messaging on a secure server located off shore and controlled by people you trust. That’s just two of the primary needs for a secure smart phone.
Apple is not secure, nor are most Androids I have looked at. As I said Blackberry did have secure offshore servers for e-mail..and messaging..I don’t know if they still do.
I did have a Samsung that would go into a reset without a code, but it did not have the other things I wanted. I suppose I could order a Black Phone. But the cost seems too high for me, based on what I would use it for as I have retired.
Gone Galt....I’d say see ya later but I doubt it..
M
“China users only”
.... for now...
You can? How? Tell me how you are going to unlock my iPhone to gain this magical access without bricking it and erasing all content for exceeding the number of failed attempts to use my random eight character or more pass code. Unless you can do that you can't do squat. . . Including clone it. Even Apple cannot bypass the encryption on the iPhone or decrypt it without the pass code, so merely unlocking it with a back door does no good to access data.
So, for your advice to buy a phone that IS secure, I bought the phone that has been proved to be so and is replacing the Blackberry in the Enterprise and Government usage. The iPhone.
You've paid zero attention to facts in favor of your fantasy.
If I didn't want the anyone to know anything about me if I were doing anything nefarious, I'd buy a untraceable Go phone that can't be associated with me in anyway. You can even get smart Gophones.
Yup....that’s what I settled on....got three of them.
As to getting into your I phone, all the authorities, (at the time and place) would need to do is ask apple or a Apple trained tech to open it. You really don’t get it do you...?
Your Apple is not any more secure than anything else...frankly, I found the Samsung to be better which is why I had one. I like the tamper proof auto reset..and anti theft. It was easy to use and user friendly. It came out in the first Galaxy, years ago.
But that does not mean that your data, sent or received cannot be read, or that the storage cloud servers are secure, or that your tele-provider has any intention of protecting anything if asked to provide it.
Your phone is not secure.
I don’t pretend to know anything about this, I have to assume they would need your name or phone number (or whatever) to find you that way. Probably easier ways to find a person these days (check their facebook, lol).
I don’t doubt they could come up with a program that waits for a particular number to be used and locate it. If they know the number. Then again, like was said, if they knew the number they’d just call it and get the data wouldn’t they?
And before you give me a bunch of nonsense about needing a code to decrypt your data, again and again, Most Apple users keep their auto update feature activated so that their phone receives the latest of numerous updates.
You would be remiss as a Apple aficionado to turn it off and not be up to date.
All they would need to do from the provider side is send you a update with a back door and you would never know it.
Would you?
My carrier was Verizon. Do you think that I trust them? They are federally regulated nearly to the degree that the Chinese carriers are and they are obligated to do whatever the authorities tell them to do.
As I indicated some time ago in one of my posts, the Federal governments of both china and the US have the same fears about there citizenry. They want to know what they are doing, thinking, saying, if they can. If there was a public uprising, they both understand that disabling the internet pipes would also damage communications in the government.
So what is the answer to that little problem...Certainly not a internet off switch that is often rumored to exist. NO, NO....that would be bad...so how do they kill comms in the public domain and not affect the government.
I’ll let you figure that out.
When you figure that out, then ask yourself just what else they can do.
Frankly, I would much rather use a CB radio...
Hardly anyone has them anymore...
Bought a couple last month..
” Tell me how you are going to unlock my iPhone to gain this magical access without bricking it and erasing all content for exceeding the number of failed attempts to use my random eight character or more pass code”
I see phones getting seized all the time now, even for traffic violations when a arrest occurs. I wonder how many people actually lock their phones when bouncing around town, or do you let it time out and have to enter a long code while your walking, talking, driving...
Naww......I don’t think many do.
BTW, I might also advise you look into this. That is assuming you want to stay connected under all circumstances..
http://www.hamradiolicenseexam.com/
You don’t need a license to listen though...just to transmit.
A
Not interested. Been there, done that.
And your CARRIER cannot change a thing on your iPhone. Zip, nada, nothing. Only Apple can do that. An iOS device will only accept alterations from a secure Apple certified upgrade server, and then only after it receives an encrypted key. That was one of the very first thing Apple locked down with the carriers. . . no access to the OS or apps. They, like everyone else, must submit any apps to Apple to be placed after vetting on the Apple App Store for voluntary download, if the customer wants them. No pre-installed crapware, no back doors. Not so with Android.
CB, three mile range, very little of the citizen band channels left legal to use. "Breaker, breaker, 19, that you good buddy?” And NO PRIVACY!
Your data? Ha! How about your money?
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