Ukraine forces destroy most of a column of Russian military vehicles, president says

Washington Post ^ | 15 Aug 14 | Michael Birnbaum

[mac_truck]

Lol...the agreement stopped being 'enforceable' when the legitimate government of Ukraine was overthrown.

[1rudeboy]

Then why would your first instinct be to refer to the status of forces agreement in your comment #167? Taking two contradictory positions on the same thread your habit?

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

How are you distinguishing between a Russian and a Ukrainian?

The ones who are drunk or stupid looking are sent from Russia (no one else would go), whereas those who do not are Ukrainian or Russian from Ukraine. Like so:

Russian terror soldiers in training:

"What about at least a single piece featuring a serial number indicating that an equipment belongs to a Russian military?"

You say that because you know the Russkies are careful to send in their forces unmarked, but what you don't know is that they aren't always careful. From a captured Russian tank, insignia of the Russian airborn forces:

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

The Russians deployed forces around Crimea to secure their base after the democratically elected government in Kiev was overthrown. They chose to do so in a discreet manner that preserved civil order and saved lives,

There are videos of Ukrainian Tatars being grabbed by your Russkies, put into cars, and later found tortured and murdered in the woods. Is that how Russkies save lives?

[Ivan Mazepa]

You might not have seen those Russian POWs on Rossiia-1, but they’ve been paraded in Ukraine, some dead, some alive, some interrogated on video.

[mac_truck]

It wasn't my first instinct to raise the SOF issue, it was raised in response to your false assertion that Russia improperly deployed troops in Crimea after the coup.

The two positions aren't contradictory either. Russia held to the terms of its agreement with the old government despite it having no obligation to do so after the old government was overthrown.

Either way, the Russian deployment in Crimea wasn't improper and your assertion that it was is still false.

[Ivan Mazepa]

Please see link below
http://inforesist.org/foto-dokazatelstva-postavok-rossiej-oruzhiya-boevikam-na-donbasse/

As for the Chechens, the most referred video is of these imbeciles. (Don’t they know it’s to be a “secret”)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn4jY6BE_0g

[Ivan Mazepa]

LOL so you’re repeating what Putin said, they’ve signed the Budapest memorandum in 1994 with one Ukrainian government, they’re not bound by it, because it’s a different president and government now.

Forget Putin for saying it, he is what he is, I find it amazing that somebody would repeat something so ridiculous.

[mac_truck]

Putin never said anything like that about the Budapest Memorandum, dummkopf.

[Ivan Mazepa]

Listen, numb nuts, when I say it, I know what I’m talking about.

Get your Russian wife or buddy to translate this link to Putin’s March 4 conference, where he says that there was an anti-constitutional revolution in Ukraine and Russia has no obligations towards this new state by honouring the Budapest Memorandum.

http://glavcom.ua/news/189872.html

I understand being a jer*off pressing random keys on a keyboard, you might find it an exciting and rewarding experience in itself, but don’t assume others are like that too. Some people know what they’re talking about.

[caww]

Not ridiculous.....some do see the election of Poroshenko as an illegitimate Gov. by disposing the previous Pres. in a coup, and that not just those who support Putin.

The ‘Agreement” also stated that non of the parties would interfer or attempt to influence the Gov. of Ukraine.... all parties broke that...so it’s not hard to understand why none of them want to keep what they agreed on when they’re all breaking it to begin with, and this before the revolution.

[GeronL]

Ukrainians have every right to “interfere” and “influence” the government of Ukraine. They deposed a corrupt regime that was pro-Russia and Russia invaded

[caww]

It was still a coup no matter how corrupt the Pres. was GeronL.....it was done by violence and force... though of course Kiev continues to deny this was so. The evidence has been clear for sometime.

Politically Nato and US pushed for new elections quickly and had Poroshenko lined up months before. There's a boatload of evidence which shows and proves as much.

The difficulty is the US put pressure on countries dipping into the US Gov. to support Poroshenko...and a host of other strong arming....which is usual when a nations leader is disposed by a coup.

It doesn't matter now what it was...Poroshenko is in office...anymore than the fact Crimea is now Russia's. They all acted quickly in the time frame they had to accomplish what they wanted.....

What they couldn't guage was the response of the Eastern Population to resist the new Kiev Gov...and it went form there.

[caww]

Mac...it’s pretty fruitless to present facts to some here.....or even anything which doesn’t agree with their choice to take sides on this event in Ukraine. If you raise any issue of difference you’ll be continually targeted as favoring Russia and that’s just how blind people see....

It’s never been about which side...it’s all about Geo-political moves being made throughout the globe..Ukraine is just one of many.

[mac_truck]

..some do see the election of Poroshenko as an illegitimate Gov.

AFAIC its up to the Russians whether they want to recognize the current government as legitimate or not.

I know for a fact they didn't recognize the Maidan radicals as legitimate and the notion that they were somehow bound by a twenty year old memorandum, after the same radicals broke a power sharing reform agreement they had just signed is risible.

I truly believe the Russians have a soft spot in their hearts for the Ukrainians otherwise they'd have stomped them flat by now.

[caww]

Russia wants to work with Ukraine.. of that there is no doubt.... All this is about preventing Russia’s influence and obtain Ukraine within the Eu/US influence. Doesn’t really matter what the people want...it’s going to play out where both Russia and the Eu/US win and the people loose in the long run.

[Ivan Mazepa]

1) there had been a legitimate transfer of power when majority in the Parliament removed Ya. from power.

2)change in government doesn’t nullify all previous treaties, especially something as basic as non-aggression. Diplomatic treaties exist between states not governments which were in power the moment a treaty was signed. When there’s a new president, does that nullify NAFTA, START, American leases abroad, security commitments abroad, contracts, debts or loans? Of course not, that’s that’s the ridiculous part.

If Russia can’t commit to a non-aggression treaty with the new government, why should Ukraine transport Russian gas, honour whatever debts it might have, allow airplanes to fly over, or not kick every Russian company out of Ukraine.

Putin BROKE the Budapest Memorandum and he’s perfectly entitled to do it. Just accept what comes with the label “can’t keep your word” and don’t insult people’s intelligence saying that you get carte blanche when there’s new government.

[Ivan Mazepa]

Ukraine couldn’t care less about Russia recognizing the new government. Just be aware if you can’t honour a basic non-aggression treaty, Ukraine won’t be honouring her obligations.

In March there was no “legitimate” old government. There was one refugee former president hiding in Russia, new executing duties of president Turchynov, and new government as approved by the majority in Parliament.