Posted on 09/25/2013 7:18:18 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
Edited on 09/25/2013 7:31:01 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Neither health care or insurance are enumerated powers for the central government to be involved in or control. Period. They are clearly reserved to the states and the people by the constitution. Doesn't matter how poor people are or how sick. The federal government has no constitutional power to intervene.
The democrats can rant and rave and present millions of sob stories about sick people, but that does not change the constitution. We're now going to have millions of sob stories from closed businesses, from people who lose their jobs, from people who have their hours and pay reduced and lose access to healthcare altogether. Obamacare will cause more damage to the free economy and cause more people to lose their healthcare than who gain. All while increasing the costs and reducing quality and eventually bankrupting the insurance companies. It's impossible for free enterprise to succeed in a socialist environment with government subsidies. You're going to have one or the other. Socialism or freedom.
Obamacare is spread-the-wealth-around Marxism (socialism). We're going to take from those who have and give to those who don't. And many of those you take it from will lose all. If self-employed, many will lose their business or can't grow their business. Many of the currently employed will lose pay, lose jobs, lose their homes, lose their families and lose their healthcare.
Most of those who receive healthcare under this socialist program will remain poor. They won't get a job. They won't build a business. They won't get an education. They will remain on the government dole. They and their children will remain dependent on the government plantation, many times generation after generation. Socialism promotes long-term poverty and dependence.
Socialist healthcare will destroy the healthcare industry. Sorry, democrats, but profit makes the world go 'round. Remove the profit motive by controlling payments for services, you cut the quality of service. Just a given. Dump a flood of millions of additional patients into a declining industry, you get scarcity, delay, reduced quality, rationing, and eventually death panels. It happens in every country that tries it. Just a fact of life.
The socialist Obamacare does not improve any problem. It makes it worse. Would be far better to abide by the constitution and keep the feds out. The constitution leaves healthcare to the states and the people. If there are any federal laws restricting free trade in healthcare, they should be stricken from the books. Let the states and insurance companies compete nationwide. Get a handle on the ambulance chasers and the lawsuit shakedown industry. Offer some sort of incentive for personal healthcare accounts. Work with states and local governments to build charity hospitals and walk-in clinics for the poor. The poor and or uninsurable should not be turned away, but we shouldn't shred our constitution or turn our entire society upside down to insure them either. Healthcare for the poor or sick who cannot possibly pay has always been funded by charity or local governments and that's the way it should be. If the feds would keep its nose out of affairs where it has no constitutional authority, there might be more room for state and local governments and charities to pick up the slack.
Furthermore, Obamacare destroys the constitutional limits on government. It sets the SCOTUS approved precedent that there are no limits whatsoever on what the government can force on the people, nor any individual right that cannot be violated, nor any states right that cannot be violated. The central government is all powerful. That's totally upside down and inside out.
And it also eliminates the separation of powers. It allows the president and the SCOTUS to rewrite legislation without congressional input or approval.
It in fact, nullifies our constitution and bill of rights and turns America into a benevolent dictatorship.
To: Seven(cubed) [Now known as Snake-Eyes].
Subject: FR Feedback Form.
Sir/Madam/It,
Please complete and send in the attached FR ButtHurt form so that FR can retain, in our circular file, a historical record of your very brief life-cycle here on FR.
Note: It is highly recommended that you do NOT attempt to gamble, or play the lotto, as your luck is apparently nonexistent.
Not as long as I have loaded rounds in my weapons. If I have to die, I want to be standing on a pile of empty brass.
Oh, my! Isn’t it the truth. Hard luck Sir/Madam/It, that one. [giggles]
The person would still be here if it didn’t insult JimRob right out of the gate.
And it also eliminates the separation of powers. It allows the president and the SCOTUS to rewrite legislation without congressional input or approval.
It in fact, nullifies our constitution and bill of rights and turns America into a benevolent dictatorship.
All of this is absolutely true - but it's done, and it can ONLY be done - by "corporatizing" the people. The 14th Amendment sets up the "power" of Congress to presume the incorporation of human beings (I know, that's completely bogus, but that's what it's used to accomplish). And a corporation is a wholly-owned, government-created entity. Because of that, the federal government presumes total power over people by presuming them to be incorporated persons.
I've written about this mechanism before, and it's not going away. In fact, it's how the Rats and RINOs "do" what they do. Unless We The People study this mechanism, and learn how to "rebut the presumption" that the government is making towards them in applying corporate statutes against them, nothing will change.
Roberts ruled about the application of Obamacare under this corporate presumption. His actual ruling differentiated between corporate and non-corporate human beings. And, because the government owns corporations, he ruled that Obamacare was legal to impose upon corporate persons.
But he also ruled that it could not be imposed on non-corporate persons. And in doing this as Chief Justice, he made history. Because in doing so, he drew the highest judicial notice to the difference in the applicability of the law to corporate and non-corporate human beings under the tax laws.
There's no way to jump up and down enough to exclaim how big a deal this ruling is. Roberts not only pointed the way OUT of Obamacare, he literally made the ruling necessary to claim the exemption. But no one sees that part of his ruling - and those who do see it, say nothing. So it's been ignored - but it's still there.
I tried to explain this situation after the ruling came out. For anyone who missed it, it's here: One Stone, Two Powers: How Chief Justice Roberts Saved America
The only "change" that needs to be done to undo literally every rotten law the Rats have made is to simply require the corporate status of every law to be declared by the government before it can be used, and for the government to have to prove that corporate status against anyone it uses that law against. Right now, corporate status is "presumed" against everybody without telling anyone that that is being presumed against them.
The situation is literally as ludicrous as "presuming" everyone is a plumber, and applying the plumbing code indiscriminantly. If you saw that being done, and in response, people were trying to repeal "abusive plumbing codes," wouldn't you simply tell them, "hey, you're NOT a plumber, so the plumbing code doesn't apply to you"? And if the Chief Justice of the SCOTUS ruled that Obamacare was perfectly legal to apply ONLY to plumbers, wouldn't that be a huge deal?
Well, that's my point - and it's Robert's point, too.
Well, this one is not done yet. If the house Republicans stand firm on their constitutional power and duty, it can deny funds for obamacare and deny the increase of federal debt limit too. And there’s absolutely nothing the president or senate or scotus can do about. The house has sole authority to deny spending or borrowing (or taxing) (per James Madison, Federalist 58).
There is nothing more important for the house to take up at this time, so Obama/Reid et al can howl at the moon until the cows come home. They (Obama/Reid) have no leverage whatsoever. And we the people have our rep’s backs. It’ll be a landslide for the Republicans in 2014 and 2016 if they hold firm to save the constitution and the Republic!
Very well said.
I think most of the Democrats and Republicans alike already know this scheme won’t help the American people overall. It’s just another welfare program designed to funnel money through the federal government and to buy votes by making people dependent on the government. That allows our ivory-tower-sitting overlords to skim money, perks and quid pro quos off the money that comes in for themselves while keeping their rapidly growing, monopolistic industry of government in business.
In the long-term, most of them probably know this’ll drive the country bankrupt, but they’ll be rich and retired by then, and they’ll let someone else worry about that.
ColFreeper,
Awesome form!
It should be standard issue, along with arrowhead’s lightning bolt :D
So the technical answer is no, 95% of Americans don't have to pay the income tax, because it's enforcement mechanisms specify that only corporations, or people responsible for corporations, are subject to income tax enforcement.
Sixty posts in, finally, it’s you who rips the bandage off.
Amen brother! No need for me to post. Destroying free markets IS “fundamentally transforming” America. Obamacare is just the big gun.
Thx. jonrick.
PRICELESS!
(I never get in before the zot! Sure did enjoy this one!)
Bull’s Eye THAT.
Puh-leeeze, add me to the zot ping list! Awesome graphic there. I’m sayin’! Thx, Rita
OMGosh!! ROTHFL! Never saw THAT before....Grrreat job.
Yikes! Where did everybody go?? Guess it’s just you and me.
What’s your name?
Heck, what’s my name?
Awwww...that’s just sad.
I’ll talk to you Miss Rita.
YEA! A FRiend at last. I can’t read military time. Maybe this thread was over hours ago. Ha! I thought it just started. LOL!
finally, it’s you who rips the bandage off.
This all unfolded in Maine starting in 1993. They destroyed the market, now we have some of, if not THE, highest premiums in the US.
Our ObamaCare exchange premium is just over $400 mo per individual.
Then there was Dirigo.....geeesh!...like Maine is a proving grounds for US communism. We've seen it all before.
“It in fact, nullifies our constitution and bill of rights and turns America into a benevolent dictatorship.”
Benevolent cannot and will not last. Too many trouble makers.
Woah, let's be clear here - all I did was point to the tax laws that Roberts referenced.
Those statutes limit the power of IRS very specifically, and the Chief Justice invoked those limitations in his ruling, and I pointed that out.
Everyone knows there's something very screwy about the tax laws. Now the Chief Justice confirmed what that screwyness is. The American people are going to have to find the courage to face what has been shown to them by the highest judicial authority in the land. If they can't, then nothing will change.
I don't know - maybe it is unrealistic to expect the American people to do that. I see it as the difference between people saying they want to be free, and actually claiming their freedom under the law.
When people talk about the 2nd Amendment, and having guns in order to fight the government if it get out of control, and prepping to survive the collapse of society, that's all seen as realistic.
On the other hand, when the Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court makes a landmark ruling based on revealing the limits of enforcement of the taxing autorites to the American people, and thereby ensures and protects their freedoms and Constitutional due process, THAT is considered UNrealistic.
When Lincoln called America the Great Experiment, this is what he was referring to. Not an experiment of intelligence or courage, but an experiment as to whether people really WANT to be free, or whether they just want to have comfy chains.
I think we're about to find out, once and for all, the answer to that question in America. And I think that what Roberts did was remove the last shred of denial from the American People. He put their freedom on the table, right in front of them, for the taking.
Whether they will walk away from it remains to be seen.
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