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How to spot a murderer's brain
The Guardian ^ | Saturday 11 May 2013 | Tim Adams

Posted on 05/12/2013 12:27:26 PM PDT by null and void


Scans of a normal brain, left, beside that of murderer Antonio Bustamante, who was spared the death penalty after a jury was shown these pictures. Photograph: Public domain

Adrian Raine, who describes himself as a neurocriminologist, moved from Britain to the US.

In Britain, the causes of crime were allowed to be exclusively social and environmental, the result of disturbed or impoverished nurture, rather than fated and genetic nature. To suggest otherwise ... was to doom yourself to an absence of funding.

Raine cites two very recent brain-imaging studies to back this up. One is a study in New Mexico in which prisoners are scanned on release. "What they are discovering is that if the functioning of the anterior cingulate, part of the limbic system, is lower than normal before release, they are twice as likely to be reconvicted in the next three years. And that marker is more accurate a guide than all other social factors," Raine says. A second study apparently shows if a released prisoner has a significantly smaller volume in the amygdala, the almond-shaped part of the brain crucial for processing memory and emotion, he or she is three times more likely to reoffend. "Now, this is only two studies, but what they are beginning to show is proof of concept, that if we added neurological factors into the equation we could do a better job at predicting future behaviour."

It is perhaps not too wildly far-fetched to imagine that such scans will one day be as routine as immunisation programmes; the bigger question then will be how we begin to react to the results. Raine rather likes the idea of public health programmes as crime prevention: "The teenage brain is still very malleable.

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: junkscience
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I wonder how our political class would fare under such examination?

(3300+ word article excerpted to less than 300 words)...

1 posted on 05/12/2013 12:27:26 PM PDT by null and void
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To: null and void

“At this point, what difference would it make!?!”


2 posted on 05/12/2013 12:31:21 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

For the current crop? None whatsoever.

But I bet we could use their craven greed, lust for unchallenged power and fear of competition to get them to pass a law requiring it for newcomers!


3 posted on 05/12/2013 12:33:38 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: null and void

Old news:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4Ntv7DJURM


4 posted on 05/12/2013 12:35:55 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: null and void

liberals are all killers at heart


5 posted on 05/12/2013 12:39:51 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: null and void
I wonder how our political class would fare under such examination?

The techs would keep re-running the scans, thinking the equipment was malfunctioning because they couldn't identify the image of any brain at all!

6 posted on 05/12/2013 12:41:43 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Age of Reason

I wonder what the scan of a brain of a person that scoffs “old news” off as an issue not worthy of contemporary consideration looks like, compared to one that does not...

Seriously, if as has been posited until the advent of modern materialism, humanity is a union of matter and spirit, then the honest investigator must ask to what extent this is an artifact of what spirit chose to do and to what extent this is an artifact of pre-extant biology. And it opens a lot of Pandora’s boxes: for example, if a mental patient has his/her brain scanned and they see something like this, will that mean the patient will be committed long term as a likely danger to society?


7 posted on 05/12/2013 12:42:14 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: null and void
Umm . . . why the selective editing?
In 1987, Adrian Raine, who describes himself as a neurocriminologist, moved from Britain to the US. His emigration was prompted by two things. The first was a sense of banging his head against a wall. Raine, who grew up in Darlington and is now a professor at the University of Pennsylvania, was a researcher of the biological basis for criminal behavior, which, with its echoes of Nazi eugenics, was perhaps the most taboo of all academic disciplines. …
And of course the Manchester Guardian goes on to try to justify it. Not only are they using “neuroscience” to get criminals off, but they will use it in the future to persecute groups of people based on their genetics due to a supposed predisposition to crime rather than anything to do with the family and the breakdown thereof.
8 posted on 05/12/2013 12:46:09 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: null and void
This level of custom work on a Prius, Volt, Smart car would be like polishing a turd.” .

I don’t care what their past is like or if they have brain damage justice still demands that they die.

The fact that they are somatically predisposed to murder simply reinforces the judgment that they must never again be free in society. The only way to ensure that they never again are a threat to society is to put them to death.

To permit them to live under a life sentence leaves the possibility that someday legislation or a judge will free them from captivity and they will again be able to prey on the inocent.

9 posted on 05/12/2013 12:51:20 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Olog-hai

It’s a risk to go off half cocked with these studies. It would be good to do longitudinal studies, following people through changes in their lives. What would a low down gangster’s salvational encounter with God, mirrored in a life that actually does play out from that point as sanctified, look like in the brain scan, or conversely what would it look like in the case of a “decent” person whose conduct later “goes south”?


10 posted on 05/12/2013 12:52:46 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: HiTech RedNeck; Age of Reason
Seriously, did you go to the link?

1931. The deficiencies in the exact areas of the brain identified as correlated with murderous crime. In 1931!

11 posted on 05/12/2013 12:52:59 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: Pontiac

Watch what road you go down there, because “preventive execution” as your linchpin rationale could be extended to those who some supposed pundit has deemed likely to murder in the future even if not now. Punishment that is not “deserved” is immoral, period.


12 posted on 05/12/2013 12:55:02 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: null and void

At which point there weren’t any scans, so that has virtually nothing to do with scans.


13 posted on 05/12/2013 12:55:50 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Olog-hai
Umm . . . why the selective editing?

Mine or theirs?

Theirs, I would presume because they have an agenda.

Mine because I simply hacked out vast blocks of text to fit the copyright requirements, I have no compelling need to mask their agenda, nor was I willing to devote a couple hours of painstaking editing to suit your sensibilities.

Please do feel free to edit and re-post the article with the 300 words that please you.

I'll be more than happy to ask the ModSquad to pull my post to allow room for your clearly superior wordsmithing.

14 posted on 05/12/2013 12:59:27 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: Pontiac

But but but but that would be like eliminating wolverines from kindergartens, just because they are wolverines!


15 posted on 05/12/2013 1:01:37 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: null and void
The image on the left is the scan of a normal brain of someone that would go out on a limb to help, say, four Americans in moral danger in a foreign hell hole. The scan on the right is an abnormal brain that would not do so.


16 posted on 05/12/2013 1:03:32 PM PDT by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
It’s a risk to go off half cocked with these studies. It would be good to do longitudinal studies, following people through changes in their lives. What would a low down gangster’s salvational encounter with God, mirrored in a life that actually does play out from that point as sanctified, look like in the brain scan, or conversely what would it look like in the case of a “decent” person whose conduct later “goes south”?

WOW!

Excellent point! Is this deficit/difference subject to actual measurable change?

17 posted on 05/12/2013 1:04:01 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: null and void

If he comes into your home here in Texas, you can examine it on the floor, walls and ceiling.


18 posted on 05/12/2013 1:04:32 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (LBJ declared war on poverty and lost. Barack Obama declared war on prosperity and won. /csmusaret)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

You are 100% correct about how wrong it would be to use this science for “preventive execution” of anyone, who has not actually yet committed a crime. OTOH, it would also be 100% wrong to let murderers off easy, on the basis that their brain is defective.


19 posted on 05/12/2013 1:06:54 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: HiTech RedNeck; Pontiac
I read Pontiac's post (they must never again be free) to mean that people with this brain scan characteristic, who have been convicted of a capital or violent crime must be eliminated or permanently isolated from society.
20 posted on 05/12/2013 1:07:49 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: freedumb2003

I so want to move to Texas.

Do you know anyone looking for an experienced semiconductor process engineer?


21 posted on 05/12/2013 1:09:37 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: FReepers; Patriots; FRiends






FReepers post articles 24/7 to keep all of us informed!

And, It takes ALL of Us to Keep FR on the Air!

PLEASE MAKE YOUR DONATION TODAY!

22 posted on 05/12/2013 1:22:02 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: null and void
Two thoughts:

1.) All English "news" papers need to be regarded with deep, abiding skepticism, and the Guardian with many times the normal amount. What their articles frequently lack in authenticity, they compensate for in imagination.

2.) It's been conclusively demonstrated in numerous independent scientific studies over 99% of all convicted murderers ate hamburgers and French fries as small children; therefore, we need to ban hamburgers and French fries immediately for the sake of the children.

23 posted on 05/12/2013 1:33:15 PM PDT by Standing Wolf
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Watch what road you go down there, because “preventive execution” as your linchpin rationale .

My linchpin rationale is JUSTICE for the victim. To take a life requires your own life be taken to serve justice.

Prevention of further murders is only necessary or possible if there is already a murder.

The death penalty is for murders not potential murders.

One must be convicted of a capital crime before one can be sentenced to death.

For a life sentence one must also be convicted of a crime.

I certainly do not advocate preventative incarceration.

24 posted on 05/12/2013 1:33:15 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: null and void

Some people are just finding the physical / material basis of “free will” disturbing.

It’s like being in denial about the certainty of a pitbull bred for aggression being violent with children. The whole thing rips and tears their dogma, and that can be scary, indeed.


25 posted on 05/12/2013 1:35:25 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: null and void
I read Pontiac's post (they must never again be free) to mean that people with this brain scan characteristic, who have been convicted of a capital or violent crime must be eliminated or permanently isolated from society. .

Thank you, for coming to my defense but that is not really what I said.

I believe that the only permanent solution, because of our messed up judicial system, for a murder is death.

A life sentence for a murder leaves the bleeding heart Liberals in the congress and in Black Robes the possibility of freeing a murder.

26 posted on 05/12/2013 1:38:09 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Standing Wolf
What their articles frequently lack in authenticity, they compensate for in imagination.

Nicely played!

For all that, they compare favorably with American "news" papers. *sigh*

27 posted on 05/12/2013 1:39:36 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: Pontiac

Fair enough, Thanks for the clarification.


28 posted on 05/12/2013 1:44:46 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: null and void

So now when applying for a gun purchase you will need a brain scan!


29 posted on 05/12/2013 1:50:10 PM PDT by Conserev1 ("Still Clinging to my Bible and my Weapon")
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To: null and void

>>Do you know anyone looking for an experienced semiconductor process engineer?<<

Well, I think TI is looking for fullconducter types...

If you finish your training I’ll see if I know anyone there ;)

(seriously, TEXAS Instruments is huge here)


30 posted on 05/12/2013 1:55:12 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (LBJ declared war on poverty and lost. Barack Obama declared war on prosperity and won. /csmusaret)
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To: Olog-hai

And I’m wondering what the stimulus, stimulating which senses effected the images. Shades of A Clockwork Orange.


31 posted on 05/12/2013 1:56:23 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Pontiac

Well as soon as you lean on “it has a practical purpose of keeping others from getting murdered by the same perpetrator” you have moved your linchpin. Period.


32 posted on 05/12/2013 2:04:37 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Excellent point...How about David Berkowitz?


33 posted on 05/12/2013 2:12:48 PM PDT by huldah1776
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To: null and void

Having the predisposition to have problems does not always culminate in the problem. This is the nature/nurture debate.


34 posted on 05/12/2013 2:14:40 PM PDT by huldah1776
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To: HiTech RedNeck

“It’s a risk to go off half cocked with these studies. It would be good to do longitudinal studies, following people through changes in their lives.”

Agreed. And even for this snapshot in time, I’d like more information about the control group here. Presumably the murderers were locked up in prison. Were the members of the control group also in prison? If not, how do we know the reported differences are not simply due to being in prison?

If the control group was in prison, how do we know that these prisoners had not also committed murder, but had not been detected and convicted of it? Do we just ask them and take their word for it?

I don’t accept any of this study, at this point. There is far too much phony science and far too little diligence in “peer review” of published papers today.


35 posted on 05/12/2013 2:18:58 PM PDT by Cincinnatus.45-70 (What do DemocRats enjoy more than a truckload of dead babies? Unloading them with a pitchfork!)
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To: null and void

All this is so that one day the left can declare criminality a disease and eliminate jail time for crime.

In the ‘mind’ of the left, there is no free will, so no one chooses to commit a crime.


36 posted on 05/12/2013 2:27:47 PM PDT by I want the USA back (Pi$$ed off yet?)
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To: null and void

The implication of neurocriminology, though – where it differs from the crude labelling of phrenology, say – is that the choice it presents is not an either/or between nurture and nature, but a more complex understanding of how our biology reacts with its environment. Reading Raine’s account of the most recent research into these reactions, it still seems to me quite new and surprising that environmental factors change the physical structure of the brain. We tend to talk about a child’s development in terms of more esoteric ideas of mind rather than material brain structures, but the more you look at the data the clearer the evidence that abuse or neglect or poor nutrition or prenatal smoking and drinking have a real effect on whether or not those healthy neural connections – which lead to behaviour associated with maturity, self-control and empathy – are made. The science of this is called epigenetics, the way our environment regulates the expression of our innate genetic code....

Raine rather likes the idea of public health programmes as crime prevention: “The teenage brain is still very malleable. There is good evidence from randomised control testing that omega-3 [fish oil] has a positive effect on young offenders, and even mindfulness seems to improve behaviour and brain structures.”

One wonders how this fits into it, as what we do for good or evil affects others, even if not damning or saving them because of their parents ctions:

And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. (Exodus 34:6-7)


37 posted on 05/12/2013 2:37:52 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: null and void

What if the crime was not caused by the shape of the brain, but the shape of the brain changes in response to events and behavior.


38 posted on 05/12/2013 2:39:23 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: daniel1212

Thank you for an eloquent exposition of a question I posted, just below you.


39 posted on 05/12/2013 2:44:00 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: I want the USA back; huldah1776
Yes. But when one with a predisposition commits a violent crime we now have that predisposition manifest.

At that point, a sane society only has the option of recognizing that this is a case where the criminal MUST be eliminated. He (or more rarely, she) has demonstrated both he has the potential to become violent, and he has demonstrated his ability and desire to do so.

He has forfeited his right to continue to be a clear and present danger to his neighbors.

Only a madman or a liberal (but I repeat myself) would argue for the right for a rabid animal to have free run of the playground.

Does rabies give a raccoon a pass when it bites a child?

Why should a brain defect give a man the right to again run free and murder another?

As for those who have dead or atrophied frontal lobes/amygdala and manage to live a civil life, more power to them! They are of better stuff than those of us who never feel the temptation, the urge, and have no intrinsic resources stopping them. My hat's off to them. They have to rise above their nature, and that is what marks us as human, we can be better than our base natures by an act of will and willpower.

40 posted on 05/12/2013 2:53:15 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: daniel1212

I love FR, posts like yours are way.


41 posted on 05/12/2013 2:57:29 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: null and void
way? No way, why!
42 posted on 05/12/2013 2:59:50 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: null and void

It’s inside a turban?


43 posted on 05/12/2013 3:15:40 PM PDT by JohnBrowdie (http://forum.stink-eye.net)
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To: JohnBrowdie

*ouch*


44 posted on 05/12/2013 3:17:29 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: null and void

Nurture has a lot to do with brain development (meaning parental interaction with a child). Children who are abused or neglected do not have proper brain development. The two go hand in hand.


45 posted on 05/12/2013 3:44:41 PM PDT by formosa
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To: null and void; huldah1776; kabumpo; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; ...
At that point, a sane society only has the option of recognizing that this is a case where the criminal MUST be eliminated.

Some would argue this has a larger application (not really)

Why should a brain defect give a man the right to again run free and murder another?

The problem is there is probability but not absolute proof: the researcher himself had a brain close to murderers, and the power this gives to murderous governments is too great. As in the Bible, evidence 2 or 3 eyewitness for capital crimes , with false witnesses receiving the penalty their false testimony incurred), we must wait till the crime occurred.

46 posted on 05/12/2013 4:21:22 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: null and void
He has forfeited his right to continue to be a clear and present danger to his neighbors.

But as a evangelical born again Christian, i know of many credible testimonies of souls who were radically changed by Christ, though they before were manifestly very prone to crime and even considered incorruptible. Nicky Cruz of "The cross and the switchblade " (worth reading) is one case, whiile the Apostles Paul before conversion was "injurious, "haling men and men" and "compelling them to blaspheme," but became just as passionate in love to save as before he was to destroy.

"Great sinners make great saints" is often true.

47 posted on 05/12/2013 4:31:54 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

“Great sinners make great saints” is often true.

I agree this can be the case....and for others who don’t appear to be “saints”... had we seen them before they knew Christ we’d reconsider being so judgemental.


48 posted on 05/12/2013 4:34:38 PM PDT by caww
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To: daniel1212
I made that precise point in my first paragraph.

Then I hammered it home again in my last paragraph.

Was I not clear?

One must have the predisposing factors AND HAVE ACTED ON THEM to earn permanent removal from society.

49 posted on 05/12/2013 4:36:50 PM PDT by null and void (The motto of all liberals is "With your guilt and your gelt we can get away with anything!")
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To: onyx

Oh that’s funnny! Normal Cell and an Obama cell!


50 posted on 05/12/2013 4:39:10 PM PDT by caww
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