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House GOP makes a $2.2 trillion debt counteroffer to Obama on cliff
The Hill ^ | December 3, 2012 | Russell Berman

Posted on 12/03/2012 12:30:51 PM PST by Kaslin

House Republican leaders have made a counteroffer to President Obama in the fiscal cliff negotiations, proposing to cut $2.2 trillion with a combination of spending cuts, entitlement reforms and $800 billion in new tax revenue.

The leaders delivered the offer to the White House on Monday with a three-page letter signed by Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.), and four other senior Republicans, including Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the party’s just-defeated vice presidential nominee.

House Republican leaders have made a counteroffer to President Obama in the fiscal cliff negotiations, proposing to cut $2.2 trillion with a combination of spending cuts, entitlement reforms and $800 billion in new tax revenue.

The leaders delivered the offer to the White House on Monday with a three-page letter signed by Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.), and four other senior Republicans, including Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the party’s just-defeated vice presidential nominee.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 12/03/2012 12:30:55 PM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin
Obamski will reject it by raising the bar.

He wants a disastrous 2013-14 as long as he can blame it, through the complicit media, on the GOP's intransigence.

He wants to take back the House in 2014 and he will use the same strategy that he used to win the WH a second time....the GOP protects the 2% anddespises the 47%.

Give him a liberal House to go with the Senate and SCOTUS and he will make the last two years of his administration so destructive that his first two years will look like the good old days.

The dopes in the GOP don't see this at all.

2 posted on 12/03/2012 12:36:35 PM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Kaslin

What difference will any offer make?

The Dems will over-regulate, and spend an extra trillion or so, no matter what offers are made. Any deal will be ignored.


3 posted on 12/03/2012 12:38:05 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: wtc911
The dopes in the GOP don't see this at all.

You may be right, but what is the GOP to do?

4 posted on 12/03/2012 12:38:54 PM PST by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: Kaslin

there are no spending cuts

reductions in rate of growth... over 10 years... not immediate as is needed

this should be a no deal

Obama wants a dictatorship for a “deal”


5 posted on 12/03/2012 12:39:03 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Kaslin

Simpson-Bowles deficit plan?

They used Obonehead’s own committee plan, the one that O commissioned and then proceeded to ignore.


6 posted on 12/03/2012 12:39:57 PM PST by Fred (http://thebubblefilm.com/)
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To: Kaslin
What is this? A effing game?

An exercise to see which party or political leader has the biggest drawers-full of junk?

I can take myself to -0- income, -0- purchases and -0-reliance on entitlements pretty easily.

That won't hurt me at all, and all these folks in politics who think this is some kind of game can just go play their games without me.

7 posted on 12/03/2012 12:40:54 PM PST by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: Kaslin

I agree with Col. Oliver North when he said last week that the GOP is about to cease to exist.


8 posted on 12/03/2012 12:41:21 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: kosciusko51

WALK AWAY!


9 posted on 12/03/2012 12:41:21 PM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: Kaslin

Why counter offer? - just pass the bill and send it to the Senate.


10 posted on 12/03/2012 12:41:27 PM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Kaslin

On percentage basis Zero wants the mix of tax / spend to be 80/20 (1600 tax, 400 spend) and boehner wants it to be 36/64 (800 tax, 1400 spend).


11 posted on 12/03/2012 12:42:09 PM PST by plain talk
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To: Kaslin

Repubs are so stupid. This is just what Obama wants them to do and he will go out now and tell the people what bad people Repubs are.


12 posted on 12/03/2012 12:44:37 PM PST by Hattie
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To: kosciusko51
What should the GOP do? First, stop reacting and start thinking. Obama has been playing three moves ahead on the chess board while the GOP is playing a pitiful game of checkers.

This offer is a good place to start but it must be shouted out that this is what Obama wanted before the election. My suggestion is just give him what he comes back with (minus the control over debt ceiling). It will suck but the blame will go with the plan, which will be his.

The goal now is not save the economy but save the House, which is the only way to save the country.

13 posted on 12/03/2012 12:45:26 PM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Agree. I think Congress should deal with budgets on an annual basis, since any future congress can (and probably will) ignore any actions by a previous congress. These 10-year “deals” are full of erroneous assumptions and are absolutely worthless.


14 posted on 12/03/2012 12:45:49 PM PST by Let_It_Be_So (Once you see the Truth, you cannot "unsee" it, no matter how hard you may try.)
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To: Triple

Obama should take this deal because it is a complete capitulation. Tax us $800 billion first, cut $1.4 trillion never.


15 posted on 12/03/2012 12:45:59 PM PST by Windy City Conservative
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To: Triple

“Why counter offer? - just pass the bill and send it to the Senate.”

Seems so easy doesn’t it? It makes so much sense to do just that. That is why it will never happen.


16 posted on 12/03/2012 12:46:39 PM PST by FerociousRabbit
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To: wtc911

So this deal in 2012 is going to save the House in 2014? I doubt anyone is even going to be thinking of this come 2014. There will be entirely new events that happen before then which will have way more impact on the election; all because voters have very short memories.


17 posted on 12/03/2012 12:48:36 PM PST by Windy City Conservative
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To: Windy City Conservative

Obama’s strategy is to let the Bush Tax Cuts lapse. Any plan is DOA.


18 posted on 12/03/2012 12:48:39 PM PST by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: GeronL

” Obama wants a dictatorship for a “deal”

This is indeed what it amounts to.


19 posted on 12/03/2012 12:51:10 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: Let_It_Be_So; All

It isn’t just the Obama people who think we are stupid. The Republicans in D.C. think so too.


20 posted on 12/03/2012 12:53:49 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: Triple
Why counter offer? - just pass the bill and send it to the Senate.

.... and go home for Christmas.

21 posted on 12/03/2012 12:54:46 PM PST by MissMagnolia ("It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains" - Patrick Henry)
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To: kosciusko51

Someone yesterday had the idea that I thought was good.

Let the Dems have what ever they want, just stand back and vote present. That way when it all goes south, the GOP fingerprints are nowhere on any of the bills.


22 posted on 12/03/2012 12:55:12 PM PST by DaiHuy (May God save the country, for it is evident the people will not! Millard Fillmore)
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To: Kaslin

Now that the GOP made their proposal, walk away from any further discussions. The Rats should really like closing “loopholes” instead of raising the rates because it would be more spending money for them


23 posted on 12/03/2012 12:55:28 PM PST by tobyhill
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To: Windy City Conservative
No, my point is that standing on a no taxes pledge "principle" will give obama exactly what he wants...the House in 2014.

A deal might save the House but this Norguist pledge will definitely lose it and give obama as close to a dictatorship as the country will ever see.

You ok with that?

24 posted on 12/03/2012 12:58:02 PM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

If I were the Republicans I would say yes to raising taxes on the rich. And to do that we are going to let the “Bush tax cuts for the rich” expire.

What are the Dmeocrats going to do? Come back and say the Bush tax cuts that they claimed for 8 years were only for the rich now include everyone else?

You mean the Democrats and the media lied to the American people? They turned this into class warfare?

Then the Republicans should come right out and say that since the Bush tax cuts were for everyone, they should be made permanent and vote on it. And then they would address taxes on the wealthy in the form of plugging loopholes.

Now mane the Senate vote on it.

Oh, and I would use every last dime from the 2012 campaign and run commercials day and night.


25 posted on 12/03/2012 12:59:22 PM PST by EQAndyBuzz (George W. Bush is the Emmanuel Goldstein of the modern era.)
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To: Kaslin

Is it true that the “cuts” are just smaller increases in spending than previously planned?

If *that* is the definition of a “cut” we might as well just declare bankruptcy now, because that sort of “leadership” in the congress will not help.

Old Chinese proverb - “first call things what they truly are.” It is the flip side of Orwell.


26 posted on 12/03/2012 12:59:22 PM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: wtc911

BTTT!


27 posted on 12/03/2012 1:00:39 PM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Hattie

Are you kidding? No matter what the republicans do, NO MATTER, Obama will go out and tell the people how bad the pubs are and the state run media will agree with him. Do you think Obama would ever say republicans are good? This is what all this is about, not OUR MONEY, not our welfare, IT IS ABOUT GOTCHA AND OBAMA HAVING ULTIMATE POWER. The Republican Party is done, in fact, any party other than the Obama party is done.


28 posted on 12/03/2012 1:02:02 PM PST by Toespi
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To: Kaslin

I think that every House Republicans should have simply voted ‘present’ and let the democrats own every bit of it.


29 posted on 12/03/2012 1:02:30 PM PST by Gator113 (**WHO in the hell gave the damn order to NOT rescue our men in Benghazi?**)
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To: FerociousRabbit

We are counter offering our previous offer negotiating with ourselves. Stand up and say “no” and let Obama take it over the cliff with this caveat. When obama says “ now we need a middle class tax cut” — simply say —NOPE. Your deal— Your fault. Cut spending.Over the cliff is better than this cave in stuff.


30 posted on 12/03/2012 1:02:39 PM PST by willowdean
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To: DaiHuy
Let the Dems have what ever they want, just stand back and vote present. That way when it all goes south, the GOP fingerprints are nowhere on any of the bills.
I saw this too. I hate the idea of it. What was the point of winning the House if you are just going to stand back and do nothing. When it comes to spending the House has to start any spending bill, this is a huge advantage. Make Dems go on record voting against extending the tax cuts, get down EXACTLY what 'loopholes' you intend to close so we don't get hammered for being vague in the media. Then pass it and walk away.
31 posted on 12/03/2012 1:02:58 PM PST by HenryArmitage (it was not meant that we should voyage far.)
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To: wtc911
Obama has been playing three moves ahead on the chess board

Obama is not that smart. Judging by the way he does everything else, it's a good guess that he does not play chess well at all.

He is, however, bold and reckless and not driven to find compromise or meaningful improvement, but rather seeks a legacy for his narcissism. He was raised in a culture where outlandish opening positions are taken for granted and lies and deception show skill in negotiating with an enemy.

Our culture is different and is based on mutual respect for opponents and a genuine desire for outcomes that benefit all. It's important to note when your opponent is pursuing a goal outside of your negotiating "boundaries" and adjust accordingly. If this had occurred previously, Obama would have been forced to adjust his style and he has not done that. Either that or he's just too stupid to be aware of what is going on. In that case, the negotiations should be suspended.

32 posted on 12/03/2012 1:04:26 PM PST by tentmaker (Galt's Gulch is a state of mind...)
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To: Kaslin

I am getting sooo tired of this charade. The deal is obviously done or Omaba would not be going on vacation.


33 posted on 12/03/2012 1:06:44 PM PST by Baynative
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To: wtc911

Oh, come now...I play a mean game of chess and can’t play checkers worth a blast. Don’t insult checker players.

Seriously, both sides in this argument are just holding out for bigger bribes. The public interest is irrelevant.

The problem is that half the country is living off the paychecks of the other half. No one is addressing that problem. Not substantially.

It’s similar to the process that finally brought us ObamaCare: years of negotiations and massive bribing for both sides.

There’s no difference between them—this last election proved that. Just as long as someone kicks up cash for 2016...


34 posted on 12/03/2012 1:08:20 PM PST by warchild9 (I have GOT to update my profile!!!)
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To: tentmaker

He was smart enough to get re-elected in the worst financial times since the 1930s. And he did it by painting the GOP as protecting the rich 2% while screwing the 47%...the same way he will win the House in two years if the GOP doesn’t stop reacting and start thinking.


35 posted on 12/03/2012 1:09:50 PM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: wtc911

Or the Republicans could go along and increase taxes, and then in 2014, some other big issues will be front and center on voters’ minds, and the GOP will still lose the House. You must be a political neophyte to think that what the House does in December 2012 is going to seal the outcome of the 2014 election. This is the best time to take risks, 2 years away from the next election. If they fold now, they will fold for the next 2 years and get absolutely slaughtered in 2014, because the GOP base will say, “bye- bye”.


36 posted on 12/03/2012 1:11:21 PM PST by Windy City Conservative
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To: US Navy Vet; wtc911; DaiHuy
It doesn't matter what the GOP does or says, since the media is in bed with the Dems. So whatever negative that happens will be blamed on the GOP, and whatever good comes out of it will be given to O.

It is not that O is so much smarter than the GOP (he's not), or that the GOP isn't thinking ahead (I'm sure they are). It is just that there is no way to compete against a stacked deck and a stupid voting populace.

37 posted on 12/03/2012 1:11:26 PM PST by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: Kaslin

They need to make Obama delivery on his promises of “transparency” as part of the deal. He gets away with blaming everything on the Republicans by making it impossible to prove otherwise.


38 posted on 12/03/2012 1:15:26 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: wtc911
I suggest you read this

Boehner on Obama Tax Plan: "You Can't Be Serious"

The Obama Administration proposal to fix the "fiscal cliff" coming at the end of the year called for $1.6 trillion in tax hikes over current policy.

I think Boehner's plan sound a lot more reasonable then Geithner's

39 posted on 12/03/2012 1:15:26 PM PST by Kaslin ( One Big Ass Mistake America (Make that Two))
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To: wtc911
Hmm ~ Obama won in 2012 through the simple expedient of running against an unelectable GOP-e candidate AND despite the loss of 7 million voters he'd had with him in 2008.

In 2010 the Republicans won despite the loss of 15 million voters they'd had in 2008, because, put in the simplest terms, 30 million Democrat voters didn't show up.

Did you know that in 2006, the Democrats took over the House mostly because 26 million Republican voters they'd had in 2004 DISAPPEARED ~ while the Democrats had only a few million who failed to show.

These different elections have wide swings, but they're not made up of millions of swing voters ~ rather, the parties have pretty much the same, or roughly the same, level of field strength and can probably get out 70 million Republican or 70 million Democrat voters for any given election IF they try hard enough.

In 2006 Republican voters stayed away because it looked like too much of the party leadership had gone Gay. In 2008, both parties made major pushes, but McCain simply couldn't get out as many Republicans as had George Bush in 2004. In 2010, the Democrats faced an angry constituency of their own ~ they'd promised an electric car in every drive but had instead delivered up cardboard bicycles!

In 2012 the Republicans tried the same trick they'd tried in 2008, and about 11 times before, and it still didn't work!

If I read what you said correctly you actually think the 47% comment had a meaningful effect?

Again, back to the 7 million voter drop off suffered by the Democrats from 2008 to 2012 ~ it may have actually benefited the Republicans considerably! Maybe we should try 46% this time ~ and let people impute whatever meaning they can to it.

Or, just tell the Democrats that in 2014 the election is on Wednesday ~ so no early voting ~ we promise the lines will be short.

40 posted on 12/03/2012 1:15:41 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Kaslin; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; ...
Here's a direct link, if any of you can follow exactly what House Rs offered please ping me with it.

House GOP makes a $2.2 trillion debt counteroffer to Obama on cliff, By Russell Berman - 12/03/12

41 posted on 12/03/2012 1:18:32 PM PST by sickoflibs (Dems want to win.The GOP wants to whine. Why dont they fight to win like Dems do?)
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To: warchild9
Come on now, nobody believes that. 82 million are under 19 (that is, they are minors), and 58 million are 65 and over (that is, mostly retirees). That right there is 140 million people in our population who aren't working. That leaves you at most 180 million to work and have babies, or create disabled working age adults.

If 47% of our 320 million population were NOT EMPLOYED that'd leave only about 20 million left to be employed if we simply exempt the elderly and the very young from the equation.

Try doing the numbers some time before you start believing a story told to you by Sean Hannity.

42 posted on 12/03/2012 1:23:52 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Kaslin

House Republicans are dopes for sending him this offer —


43 posted on 12/03/2012 1:26:04 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Interesting take : )


44 posted on 12/03/2012 1:29:46 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: chris37

What is North’s reasoning...I tend to agree, too, but curious as to his thoughts.


45 posted on 12/03/2012 1:31:43 PM PST by ilgipper (Obama supporters are comprised of the uninformed & the ill-informed)
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To: Kaslin

THE ENTIRE “FISCAL CLIFF” CRAP IS ONLY A RUSE TO RAISE TAXES. PERIOD. COVERS BOTH PARTIES.


46 posted on 12/03/2012 1:32:43 PM PST by AmusedBystander (The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next)
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To: Kaslin

As they sent the offer, they were passing out head lamps, helmets and pick-axes.

We’re about to go spelunking!!!!


47 posted on 12/03/2012 1:35:45 PM PST by Tenacious 1 (The Click-&-Paste Media exists & works in Utopia, riding unicorns & sniffing pixy dust.)
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To: Uncle Chip

It’s a counter offer. Obamugabe has no thoughts on the matter ~ nor can he.


48 posted on 12/03/2012 1:36:39 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Kaslin
Know all about it, who here doesn't.

And, Timmy's absurd proposal proves my point...team obama does not want a deal...they want pain...pain that they can blame on the GOP's coddling of the "rich".

I can hear him now..."I need your help...I tried but the GOP in the House is worried more about protecting the riches 2% than it is about you...give me what I need to fix this...give me control of the House..."

And it will work if the GOP doesn't get smart.

49 posted on 12/03/2012 1:37:37 PM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: muawiyah

No cable in my house, and so no Sean Hannity. Sorry. Besides, Fox News is good only for a laugh, at best.

I wasn’t referring to the 47%. That was a number chucked around by the corporate news system.

My 50% represented an inferred estimate. If I had said “sh!tload,” would that have made my point more clear?


50 posted on 12/03/2012 1:38:59 PM PST by warchild9 (I have GOT to update my profile!!!)
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