Posted on 07/29/2012 2:05:32 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
In all seriousness: God bless you, I work with High schoolers because that is who I work best with. The middle school kids scare the CR@P out of me. The are little bags of hormones running around in sneakers. I hope it works out well for you. Please keep in mind that there are a number of states that do not require a "teaching certificate" at all. Some require only that you have a Bachelors in your subject area, or 3-5 years of verifiable work experience (Or apprentice papers) for a vocational subject. NYS did not require me to do as much "Student teaching" as a liberal arts subject because I was able to verify that I had been teaching apprentice machinists for about 2 years.
NO these are opinions. 2+2=4 is a fact this can be verified by taking two objects and another two objects placing them in a group and counting the sum total.
All you have been doing is expressing opinions, and doing so in an emotional manner.
Now if you want to forward your posts to me privately, I am more than willing to edit them, so that you do only present facts and do so in an unemotional manner.
Here are some book suggestions for you. I use them when I work with the High school students on our state champion debate team:
Thank You for Arguing: What Aristotle, Lincoln, and Homer Simpson Can Teach Us About the Art of Persuasion [Paperback]
http://www.amazon.com/Thank-You-Arguing-Aristotle-Persuasion/dp/0307341445/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343645722&sr=8-1&keywords=thank+you+for+arguing
I believe that you will find this one the most helpful given the nature of your arguments and the actually FACTS that a number of others have pointed out your logical fallacies in this thread.
Nonsense: Red Herrings, Straw Men and Sacred Cows: How We Abuse Logic in Our Everyday Language
http://www.amazon.com/Nonsense-Herrings-Sacred-Everyday-Language/dp/0975366262/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343645933&sr=1-1&keywords=Nonsense+Red
Asking the Right Questions: A Guide to Critical Thinking Plus NEW MyCompLab Student Access Card (10th Edition)
http://www.amazon.com/Asking-Right-Questions-Critical-MyCompLab/dp/0205111165/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343646007&sr=1-1&keywords=asking+the+right+questions
Your observation made me smile and recall my mother saying that junior high students don't know if they are animal, vegetable or mineral.
The Left has been steadily worked to squeeze all the good (and love of learning) out of education, grow union membership and instill hatred for America in student's minds.
A colleague of mine teaches at the Middle school. We were comparing notes one day and agreed that both of us were exactly where we belonged. He likes them because of their "energy and enthusiasm." I like the older ones because you can actually talk to them like adults.
Thanks. My actual "best of all possible worlds" is to set up a deal where both my wife and I teach chem/science (she is also PhD Chem.....we first met in Chem Lab in undergrad..and there was "chemistry"....though perhaps not a first sight). We would each work half-time but occupy one "slot" in the TA. She already has lots of teaching experience (undergrad and grad college). We could tag-team the little ********......:^)
She is small and sweet. Me.....not so much.
If science teachers were scientists, instead of teachers, there would be less of an issue. Same with math, IMO.
I have a M.S. in Cell and Molecular Biology. I was apparently fully qualified to be a Teaching Associate at a State University - but would need a degree in Education to be able to teach High School science.
Having coached an ex wife through an education degree program I can tell you that it is absolutely a crapfest of idiotic buzzword indoctrination that is meaningless to someone being a good teacher or not.
I looked into taking a big pay cut to teach - because everyone has always told me I was so good at it (my student evals were exemplary), but I was NOT going to go back to school to take a pay cut.
If you were to go over all of my past posts, you will note that I have repeatedly stated, “BEGIN the process of privatization,”
So....Given that I advocate a **gradual** transition it is extremely unfair of you to accuse me of a “no-government at all” position. A gradualist approach would give ample opportunity to move forward with privatization, if it was show to be equal or better than the existing system, or to pull back and revert to the socialist=entitlement system now in existence.
In those states where vouchers, tax credits, charters are already in place no study has show that these private deliveries has done worse than government schooling. They are either equal to or *better** than the government alternative. In every study where children were admitted by lottery, those who won the lottery did better than those children who were not admitted.
Personally, I believe that it would be better for the nation's children to have complete separation of school and state...HOWEVER...given a gradual approach, if privatization were proven to be unworkable, or harmful to children, there would be more than enough opportunity to revert to the old socialist-entitlement system of schooling.
You have repeatedly stated that I should get involved and one suggestion made is that I seek a position on the local school board ( AKA “socialist-entitlement school collective”).
So?...If I were to win a place on the socialist-entitlement school collective, how is it possible to correct the following:
1) If the godless schools are made into a God-centered schools wouldn't this trash the religious freedom of conscience of those who are secular humanists in the community. If the godless schools remain godless how isn't this trashing the First Amendment religious rights of those who firmly believe in God? The taxpayers, parents, and children are all greatly impacted in a religiously non-neutral manner by curriculum content and consequences by either decision, godless or God-centered.
2) If I were to lobby to have schools that were not prison-like and non-Prussian model, wouldn't this negativing impose on the freedom of conscience of those who want the community's children to attend prison-like schools? Why would it be more just for me to crush the freedom of conscience of other families than it is for them to crush mine?
3) How is it possible to have a religiously, culturally, and politically neutral school? It isn't. So?....Why would it be more just for me to impose my non-neutral religious, political, and cultural worldview on other families, than it is for them to impose their non=neutral worldview on me?
4) How is it possible to have a government owned and run school that doesn't trash and strictly suppress all of the child's First Amendment Rights ( speech, press, assembly, expression of religion, and establishment of religious worldview)? If I don't want other’s doing that to me and my children, why would I feel justified in doing that to others?
Do you see the problem, verga? Government schools can't be fixed. We must begin the process of privatization.
By the way, thank you for the opportunity to bring these questions to the attention of other Freepers. If you post publicly, then you should expect a public response. It is only fair ( government teachers are always fair) for both parties, not just one, to have their views brought the attention of the public.
If at this point, you wish to continue privately, I would be pleased to do so.
Every government owned and run K-12 school in this nation is godless in its worldview and is a socialist-entitlement. When teachers agree to teach in these schools they agree to following:
1) The curriculum and school policies are godless in their worldview. Just to cooperate in the classroom and school, read the godless texts, and do their godless home assignments, the child must think and reason godlessly. How could it be otherwise? Do you really want to cooperate with forcing this on children?
2) All government owned and run K-12 schools in this nation are a socialist-entitlement. Simply by attending children risk learning that the voting mob has enormous power to give them tuition-free schooling. So?...If the voting mob can give them tuition-free schooling, why not **lots** of “free” stuff? Is this something you would really want to cooperate with? Really?
Some Freepers have hammered me for using the words “all” and “every”, so if you or anyone knows of an exception please provide a link. ( No one ever has.)
Dude, I’m simply not interested in you constant whining about “evil socialist schools”, and your “no government involvement” libertarianism. It is simply bullshit, and absolutely typical of over-the-top theoretical libertarianism. Stop wasting my time and yours. I know enough history to know that the US was never designed to be a libertarian utopia. It was intended to be a practical government for practical people. And it worked quite well until the “theoretical socialists” got into power. There IS a practical and workable “middle ground”. But your position is NOT IT.
Again, please reread my posts. I do not advocate for immediate “no government involvement”. The policies that I promote are extremely moderate with plenty of opportunity for reverting to the socialist-entitlement system if needed.
I am posting to you because you have distorted my position and created your own strawman. This post is to rectify this.
I've read'em. My opinion is unchanged.
"I am posting to you because you have distorted my position and created your own strawman. This post is to rectify this."
No, "this post" is to drag out your argument after having been told to bug off. Now BUG OFF.
This is a load of B.S. I have dealt with you for several years now and have been personally attacked by you on numerous occasions. On a regular basis you have advocated an immediate and in some cases violent over throw of the system. Several months ago you refused to repudiate another FReeper that advocated killing public school officials, even when called on by your own mind numbed zombies.
Your absolutely correct. YOU can't do anything, but it is not for the reasons you state, it is because you would rather sit and whine.
All of those questions you ask about can be dealt with as I have said by "All of the above" approach. For those that are happy with the system, great they can keep it. For the rest a voucher system that follows the student. Whether it is Private, Parochial, vocational, magnet, home schooling... etc.
This is the approach I have advocated since the day I "met" you.
But this will never happen unless parents and other citizens actually get involved. People need to run for school boards, congress etc... and change the system from with in like I am doing.
The system did not get broken over night and it won't get fixed over night, we may not see it in our lifetimes, but you need to do more than sit in front of your computer and whine.
There are two approaches to change: evolution and revolution, with evolution, there is much less bloodshed and fewer bodies in the street.
I also appreciate your posts it lets people see both the kook fringe approach and the more rational but just just as passionate approach that I have.
And appreciate that you finally are willing to admit that I have presented them and you have presented less than nothing.
Seriously, you claim to be changing " the system from with in ( sic)....". How is it possible in any way to correct the following? These are problems that are intrinsic to a compulsory, socialist-entitlement, and godless program. How are you changing the following "from within"?
If the godless schools are made into a God-centered schools wouldn't this trash the religious freedom of conscience of those who are secular humanists in the community? Children in godless classrooms must think godlessly just to cooperate. How could it be otherwise?
If the godless schools remain godless isn't this trashing the First Amendment religious rights of those who firmly believe in God? How could it possibly be respectful to the child and his parents to have the government force a child to think and reason godlessly? Please remember that all children whose parents can not find a private school, ( there are none in my county and many other counties in this nation) or homeschool are under police threat to attend a godless government school.
Why should any taxpayer be forced, under the threat of armed police and court action, to pay for the godless or God-centered indoctrination of their county's children? How can this be compatible with the First Amendment?
Surely you are aware that the taxpayers, parents, and children are all greatly impacted (in a religiously non-neutral manner) by the non-neutral content of curriculum and school policies by either decision, (godless or God-centered). How would you resolve the conflict of religiously non-neutral schools, non-neutral content. non-neutral policies and non-neutral consequences with the First Amendment and the establishment of religion?
If you were to lobby to have schools that were either prison-like or not prison-like and Prussian-model or non-Prussian model, wouldn't this negatively impose on the freedom of conscience of those who want the opposite of your preference? Why would it be more just for you to crush the freedom of conscience of other families than it is for them to crush your freedom of conscience?
How is it possible to have a religiously, culturally, and politically neutral school? ( Answer:It isn't.) So?....Why would it be more just for you to impose your non-neutral religious, political, and cultural worldview on others?
How is it possible to have a government owned and run school that doesn't trash and strictly suppress all of the child's First Amendment Rights ( speech, press, assembly, expression of religion, and establishment of religious worldview)? If you wouldn't want others doing that to you and your children, why would you feel justified in doing that to others? By having government trash First Amendment Rights by government employees in its schools, don't children risk learning to be compliant prisoners of the state? Do you think training children to be prisoners of the state is a good thing?
Do you see the problem, verga? Government schools can't be fixed. We must begin the process of privatization. On the question of vouchers, charters, and tax credits we agree. Hopefully, though these means we can, safely, cautiously, and gradually achieve complete separation of school and state.
By the way, thank you for the opportunity to bring these questions to the attention of other Freepers.
A voucher system that follows the student will let the parents and the students decide which school and which type of school they want to go to. Most will realize that public education is the best bang for the buck and will stick with that. Those that want a religious based school will choose one of those. Those that are interested in having mind numbed cultists will... well you can read my tag line.
BTW the reason that i don't communicate with you off-list/ off thread is the single time I did you reprinted it against forum rules on thread.
BTRW thank you for demonstrating that you really don't read what is posted, and allowing me to present the logical rational approach.
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