Posted on 07/29/2012 2:05:32 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
“The Real Cost of Public Education” ( And this is for an educational system that has NEVER been proven to work or be effective in any way.)
Sir, Please as an engineer I need empirical evidence. Do you have studies from an unbiased source or not? Please do not resort to red herrings and straw men arguments. Either YOU have the studies I asked for or you don’t.
I didn’t realize it went that far back, time wise.
Best job I never took was an entry-level engineering position with Exxon in 1982. I’d have been on the street in less than 6 months looking to break an apartment lease in Houston. The offer money was great, though!
Sir, please don't use "crude" language with me. I was an officer and still am a gentleman.
If what you say is true then why haven't the home schoolers done/ sponsored studies to prove their worth. Please remember that I asked you for the evidence, and it is up to you to provide it or with draw your comments,if you can't provide this information.
Uh?...Maybe because they are just moms and pops without bottomless pits of taxpayer money?
Hey! More money goes to government K-12 each year ( federal, state, and local) education,not including university level education, than to the military.
**EDUCATION** is supposed to be the **profession** of so-called “professional “ educators. If they were genuinely interested in education and really **loved** their students ( as they claim to do) then there should be studies on homeschooling within easy reach to you, me, and others. There aren't.
In fact, there should be tons of studies proving that government schools are effective and that learning to due to the efforts of the teachers and not due to the afterschooling done by the parents...but...”professional” educators who claim to love children haven't done these studies either.
Then you should be **very** UNHAPPY with the government schools, because their is NO evidence that government schools teach anything.
The afterschooling and preschooling done by parents, the child, and tutors has NEVER been studied. Without studying the massive input from the home it is impossible to come to any conclusion about the effectiveness of this massive government education socialist-entitlement.
Please don’t call me, “Sir”. You aren’t my servant.
“Sir” is so upper class English and Continental. What? ??
If I were to meet you in person would you expect me to address you by your last name without using the title Miss, Mrs. or Mr.? ( As in, “Republic”,please brew my tea! Make sure it is Earl Grey!” )
You provided a study from a less than unbiased source and are now complaining about the cost of this and that.
You are not answering the question(s) I asked. You are wasting a lot of band width ignoring/ avoiding my question.
Further where I come from we address each other as Sir, Ma,am, or Miss as the case may be. That is how I was raised, it is called being polite.
Have a good day Sir.
The real issue here, though, is why **professional** educators have so little professional and intellectual curiosity that they have ignored studying homeschooling and adults who have been homeschooled. They have the financial resources and experience to do so even though homeschooling has grown ( in one generation) to comprise 4% of school aged children.
And...Another very important issue is that the **profession** of educators has NEVER studied its **own** system of government socialist-entitlement schooling. It has NEVER determined how much of a student's learning is acquired in the classroom as compared to that acquired though the hard work of the parents, the child, or tutors IN THE HOME due to afterschooling and preschooling.
Without knowing the contribution of afterschooling to standardized test scores, parents may be making huge sacrifices in home expenses and long commutes to work for government schools that claim to be “good” but may not be in any way. The schools may have high test scores due to the hard work of the parents, child, and tutors in afterschooling.
As an engineer, you should see that spending up to $30,000/year/child on an untested educational strategy is not a good idea.
By the way, my title is Doctor.
I never bought a new vehicle, always paid cash for used and if need be, fixed it up as I went (I have a pretty large collection of manuals and a lot of tools, now). Similarly, my budget (back when I worked for others) was always set on how much unemployment would pay in the event I got laid off.
I have lived modestly, but have never had to default on a loan or refinance, and never had to sell the vehicle to save it, and I still always keep enough set aside to buy out of cell phone contracts if the need arises.
I saw too many people lose everything they had.
Sadly, many folks out there who never thought it would happen to them in other industries have had a bitter taste of what hits the oil industry every decade or so.
Teachers constantly tell us that parental involvement is critical to a child's academic success. And you now want someone to provide evidence that parent's afterschooling their children makes a difference? What's with that? Are all those public school teachers lying?
Wintertime isn't just making those comments on her say so. The public education establishment has been stating that for years.
And since when is a one on one education not superior to a classroom setting?
All three of my kids were homeschooled and they are excelling/have excelled at college. And you know why? Because they know how to study and teach themselves, and they are motivated instead of being used to being spoon fed data and being expected to regurgitate it back while someone is holding their hands. They know how to think for themselves.
That alone answers your questions. That's why they will earn more money, be emotionally/mentally stable, and preform better in college.
Wintertime did and you blew it off as being biased.
Make up your mind, will you?
Get off your high horse. You won't believe the studies because you don't want to, as you've already demonstrated.
Thank you,....I was feeling like Horatio on the Bridge.
I hope that this is not the attitude you take with your children when they point out an error you make.
Let me show you why his study is not valid.
It would be the exact same thing if the DNC hired Debbie Wasserman Schultz to poll it's members to see who is the favored candidate Obama or Romney.
For the record I am an Engineer and retired after 20+ years in the military. When I requested information on troop strength, location, and fortification, I needed accurate information. I didn't want my analysts telling me something they thought I wanted to hear. Mr. Wintertime's study tells home schoolers what they want to hear.
If the study is not valid, you need to show it with another study demonstrating so. Your rationale as to why it is not valid is not in itself valid.
Please provide the hard empirical evidence to contradict the findings of the study wintertime provided.
Wait a minute. You said, to give you a study and it was given to you
>>http://www.hslda.org/research/ray2003/Socialization.asp
This “study” you posted does not really hold much water.<<
Back that statement up with facts, not opinions. Where are your citations?
You miss one critical point, Mr. Hope.
Homeschoolers aren’t the ones who have something to prove. If homeschooling is completely ineffective, the only people affected are homeschoolers and their children. However, if the government system is broken, all taxpayers are being forced, on penalty of losing their homes, going to jail, or other penalties, to fund a broken system.
I think I saw you mention that one of your problems with the methodology on the study was that about 60% of the surveyed responders were homeschoolers whereas we make up closer to 4% of the population. That’s actually not a problem. We aren’t comparing the groups in a way that requires statistical representation. What we’re comparing is outcomes, and for that, we want percentages of the discrete populations. That is, if we compare homeschool versus government school graduates for “percent who become felons”, we don’t have to first ensure proper statistical distribution. If we were trying to determine “raw number of homeschoolers versus public schoolers who become felons”, then we might care about the distribution.
http://www.hslda.org/research/ray2003/HomeschoolingGrowsUp.pdf - this is from the HSLDA and so you probably rejected it (or is this the same study wintertime already posted?) but it’s pretty good, I’d say.
This was posted for hftr on another thread and received a condescending, snarky response. And of course, was also rejected as not being good enough.
SAT/ACT homeschoolers:
http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/hslda/200105070.asp
Standardized test scores homeschoolers:
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp
The end of the Standardized test scores section has a litany of studies done by public schools that show the results of the success of homeschooling.
You "SIR" are the last one who should be whining about others languages. For all the gentleman facade you put up on this thread, your posting history tells a different story.
Does "cr@p" ring a bell?
You are a hypocrite through and through. You have shown no integrity in your discussion here or your whining about what kind of language others are using.
Please note this, mr. noob..... that doesn't go over well here on FR.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.